27 dead in Texas shooting at xhurch.

[edgecrusher]

19 minutes ago, EngrBob said:

I will begin to think about any level of "gun control" when one of these progressives answers one simple question, "If someone is not going to obey the laws relating to murder, why would you believe they will obey those limiting the possession or use of guns?"

????

[survivalshop]

10 hours ago, EngrBob said:

I will begin to think about any level of "gun control" when one of these progressives answers one simple question, "If someone is not going to obey the laws relating to murder, why would you believe they will obey those limiting the possession or use of guns?"

  Their end goal is to eliminate all firearms in the USA , their mind set is , "with out guns , this will not happen " , they live in a bubble & are brain washed into thinking this will solve all gun problems .

  We all know that's not going to work , no matter what Planet your from .

  According to this article , he was off the deep end & seems like the USAF dropped the ball on this .

http://www.breitbart.com/news/texas-church-shooter-once-escaped-mental-hospital-made-threats/

[392heminut]

That azzhole was convicted of domestic violence in his court martial hence, he was not supposed to be able to buy a gun or even have a firearm in his possession. Doesn't make any difference if it was a felony conviction or a misdemeanor conviction, domestic violence conviction of any sort removes you from being able to own firearms. The military dropped the ball on him, he was never entered into the system after they convicted him of domestic violence. Records are being reviewed now to see how many other military domestic violence convictions have fell through the cracks.

[98Z5V]

^^^  Yep.  Lautenberg Act. 

[survivalshop]

13 hours ago, 392heminut said:

That azzhole was convicted of domestic violence in his court martial hence, he was not supposed to be able to buy a gun or even have a firearm in his possession. Doesn't make any difference if it was a felony conviction or a misdemeanor conviction, domestic violence conviction of any sort removes you from being able to own firearms. The military dropped the ball on him, he was never entered into the system after they convicted him of domestic violence. Records are being reviewed now to see how many other military domestic violence convictions have fell through the cracks.

   Being committed to a mental facility against his will , should have shown up also , but they probably didn't report that also , HIPPA act may be an issue with reporting that . It should be mandatory that any forced commitment to a mental facility , is subject to the same firearm restrictions as a Domestic conviction .

     

[jtallen83]

1 hour ago, survivalshop said:

   Being committed to a mental facility against his will , should have shown up also , but they probably didn't report that also , HIPPA act may be an issue with reporting that . It should be mandatory that any forced commitment to a mental facility , is subject to the same firearm restrictions as a Domestic conviction .

     

Careful with that, better get some due process involved before taking constitutional rights away. Two people can lie and get you committed for a mental evaluation. Lots of room for abuse of the system there. 

Plain and simple, Liberty is dangerous. If we don't accept that then we don't deserve it.

[Armed Eye Doc]

57 minutes ago, jtallen83 said:

Careful with that, better get some due process involved before taking constitutional rights away. Two people can lie and get you committed for a mental evaluation. Lots of room for abuse of the system there. 

Plain and simple, Liberty is dangerous. If we don't accept that then we don't deserve it.

I agree.  Just because someone is committed to a mental facility, does not mean they are a psychopath.  I can see this being expanded to include people who go to a psychiatrist, then those on antidepressants, then those who went to grief counselors, etc...  This, like so many other well-meaning idea, opens the door for future abuses.

[COBrien]

I was talking with my wife (LEO) about this last night. She told me about several incidents where a subject was convicted by court martial, but that conviction was never entered into NCIC, the database a NICS check searches. Not once, not twice, but several times in her 9-year (so far...) career in a small town of <25,000 people this has happened.

Methinks the military is dropping the ball on a fairly regular basis. This latest shooting is a shining (like a diamond in a goat's ass...) example of that.

What is it the NRA has been saying all these years? Oh, yeah...

ENFORCE THE LAWS ON THE BOOKS before we go inventing new, ever more asinine restrictions.

[survivalshop]

9 hours ago, jtallen83 said:

Careful with that, better get some due process involved before taking constitutional rights away. Two people can lie and get you committed for a mental evaluation. Lots of room for abuse of the system there. 

Plain and simple, Liberty is dangerous. If we don't accept that then we don't deserve it.

   Due process , OK ,  I think this is more then enough evidence to say he was mentally unstable & IMO should disqualify him from owning a firearm . There is already due process for committing someone by the authorities ,BAKER ACT , happens all the time in Hospitals , I know because I used to help restrain these crazies , they would tell you they would kill your whole family for touching them . 

    I dont have to be careful about it , I think its time something has to be done about these crazies , HIPPA be damned and also all those who don't want to do something about these people , because they are afraid they just might have to jump through some kind of hoop to prevent these killings .  

  Of course you can put your Tin Foil hat on & think this is some big plot to take your guns away or restrict them , sooner or later gun owners are going to wake up & see that its not a plot , its reality that these nut cases are going to do what couldn't be done by all the anti gunners in the world !

    

• Devin Patrick Kelley, the gunman who killed 26 people on Sunday at a rural Texas church, escaped from a mental health hospital in 2012, according to a police report.
• The report also says Kelley made death threats against people on his military chain of command, and a witness expressed concern that he would attempt to carry them out.
• Kelley was sent to the facility after he was charged in a military court with assaulting his wife and infant stepson. He later pleaded guilty to the charges and was sentenced to a year in a Navy prison.

Edited November 9, 2017 by survivalshop

[98Z5V]

17 hours ago, survivalshop said:

   Being committed to a mental facility against his will , should have shown up also , but they probably didn't report that also , HIPPA act may be an issue with reporting that . It should be mandatory that any forced commitment to a mental facility , is subject to the same firearm restrictions as a Domestic conviction .

     

 

15 hours ago, jtallen83 said:

Careful with that, better get some due process involved before taking constitutional rights away. Two people can lie and get you committed for a mental evaluation. Lots of room for abuse of the system there. 

Plain and simple, Liberty is dangerous. If we don't accept that then we don't deserve it.

Gotta be court-ordered, and gotta be 30 days or more, for that one to have an impact on gun purchasing.  Court-ordered for a mental evaulation doesn't affect it, if the court order was for 14 days of mental evaluation/committment...

Gotta be careful with the "military charges" that the news is spewing, also.  It really has to be a military court, which is a no-shiit full-blown Court Martial.  That's the only Military Court that there is.   Non-Judicial Punishment (NJP) doesn't count.  Not at all.  That's just an Article 15 (or AR15), and it's an acceptance of punishment for breaking punitive regulations (not for breaking administrative regulations).  There are a couple different levels of AR15s, also, and that stuff is administered by company-grade and field-grade commanders.  It's used to enforce discipline.  It's not a conviction of guilt, it's an acceptance of punishment...  I kid you not...   

There's alot that the MSM is saying about this, but there are some major facts that are left out.  I'm not fully convinced that the MSM has their shiit straight on all of it, but they're blasting off at the mouth about it, like they know it all.

 

[bubbas4570]

^^^^^^^^^^^^ just like they always do when something happens, blowing a bunch to see what sticks.....

[bubbas4570]

 

I know this is a few days old, but is interesting to hear things first hand.

[StainTrain]

10 hours ago, 98Z5V said:

 

Gotta be court-ordered, and gotta be 30 days or more, for that one to have an impact on gun purchasing.  Court-ordered for a mental evaulation doesn't affect it, if the court order was for 14 days of mental evaluation/committment...

 

Exactly.  A lot of people think a 72 hour evaluation is a one way ticket to unarmedsville...but it ain't.  

[jtallen83]

Problem is I've heard plenty on both sides of the political spectrum call for changes to these rules so crazy people can't get weapons, like rules and laws can stop this. In reality they just need to inforce what is already there, repeal the NFA(can't help myself), and encourage the law abiding citizen to arm himself.

[unforgiven]

These evil motherfukers just want to out do the last chicken $hit motherfukers. Murderous cowards pick opportunities of ease. My cousin on this trip started with her libtard bull$hit I was ready to fly out then and there. We need more sheepdogs.

[98Z5V]

14 hours ago, bubbas4570 said:

 

I know this is a few days old, but is interesting to hear things first hand.

THAT'S A DAMN FUCKIN' GREAT INTERVIEW. 

[Sisco]

9 hours ago, unforgiven said:

 We need more sheepdogs.

You hit the nail on the head brother.

[survivalshop]

17 hours ago, StainTrain said:

Exactly.  A lot of people think a 72 hour evaluation is a one way ticket to unarmedsville...but it ain't.  

  Its not most of them I'm talking about , although if you spent any time working in a Nut ward , you would wonder how some of these people are even functioning in our world. Its the long term Mental health facilities we used to have , is what we need again .

  This POS was , from what I read ,was court ordered to a Mental Heath ward probably in a Hospital ?, because thats pretty much all that is left  to send these people to . I can tell you first hand , some of them do not belong amongst us . 

  You will find that everyone of these POS MF'ers that do these shootings have a long list of mental disorders that should have put them in a long term Mental heath Facility , of course , that don't exists any more . There are a few , but very costly & since the States & Fed. don't pay or put $$ into them , we have a lot of crazies running around " Homeless " . Just look at some of the crimes being committed by these "Homeless People " .

  We just had a older man who was at a Park , enjoying himself with his family , when out of the blue , this "Homeless POS" came up & stabbed him to death . No reason or even why he did it . Of course because of the restrictions of HIPPA , you or I will never know his past mental records. I could care less about his heath , except for the Mental disorders he probably had for a long time & was not treated , just give him some pills & let him back out on the street !

   If you don't take someone telling you & everyone else he is going to kill people & not take it seriously , you could be in for a rude awakening . I can pretty much say from experience , that the Vegas shooter also was probably a nut case also & probably had a Mental heath record , but we will never hear about it .

[StainTrain]

I agree with you .  I know that they are out there.  We need to get them treatment, we need to limit their interaction with the general public and we need to keep them away from firearms.   I don't try to change people's mind on this issue because either people have experience with this issue or they don't.

Edited November 11, 2017 by StainTrain

[sketch]

private mental hospitols still exist and get state funding.. its a volentary enrolment.

[bubbas4570]

5 hours ago, survivalshop said:

  Its not most of them I'm talking about , although if you spent any time working in a Nut ward , you would wonder how some of these people are even functioning in our world. Its the long term Mental health facilities we used to have , is what we need again .

  This POS was , from what I read ,was court ordered to a Mental Heath ward probably in a Hospital ?, because thats pretty much all that is left  to send these people to . I can tell you first hand , some of them do not belong amongst us . 

  You will find that everyone of these POS MF'ers that do these shootings have a long list of mental disorders that should have put them in a long term Mental heath Facility , of course , that don't exists any more . There are a few , but very costly & since the States & Fed. don't pay or put $$ into them , we have a lot of crazies running around " Homeless " . Just look at some of the crimes being committed by these "Homeless People " .

  We just had a older man who was at a Park , enjoying himself with his family , when out of the blue , this "Homeless POS" came up & stabbed him to death . No reason or even why he did it . Of course because of the restrictions of HIPPA , you or I will never know his past mental records. I could care less about his heath , except for the Mental disorders he probably had for a long time & was not treated , just give him some pills & let him back out on the street !

   If you don't take someone telling you & everyone else he is going to kill people & not take it seriously , you could be in for a rude awakening . I can pretty much say from experience , that the Vegas shooter also was probably a nut case also & probably had a Mental heath record , but we will never hear about it .

Unfortunately that situation started being DQ'd in the 50's if I remember correctly from what I read somewhere. There were "better" and "more humane" ways of treating the nutcases......drugs and integrated into society, so we can deal with the fallout from their actions....not locked up behind closed doors, playing chess and chasing butterflies; where their actions only affected the other nutcases or the orderlies.

Either way, nutcases are going to deal out bad actions, and a better form of control over them is what is lacking now.

[bubbas4570]

19 minutes ago, sketch said:

private mental hospitols still exist and get state funding.. its a volentary enrolment.

Problem with that is normally one can walk back out if voluntarily self committed.

 

Or am I wrong?

[Sisco]

6 hours ago, survivalshop said:

  Its not most of them I'm talking about , although if you spent any time working in a Nut ward , you would wonder how some of these people are even functioning in our world. Its the long term Mental health facilities we used to have , is what we need again .

  This POS was , from what I read ,was court ordered to a Mental Heath ward probably in a Hospital ?, because thats pretty much all that is left  to send these people to . I can tell you first hand , some of them do not belong amongst us . 

  You will find that everyone of these POS MF'ers that do these shootings have a long list of mental disorders that should have put them in a long term Mental heath Facility , of course , that don't exists any more . There are a few , but very costly & since the States & Fed. don't pay or put $$ into them , we have a lot of crazies running around " Homeless " . Just look at some of the crimes being committed by these "Homeless People " .

  We just had a older man who was at a Park , enjoying himself with his family , when out of the blue , this "Homeless POS" came up & stabbed him to death . No reason or even why he did it . Of course because of the restrictions of HIPPA , you or I will never know his past mental records. I could care less about his heath , except for the Mental disorders he probably had for a long time & was not treated , just give him some pills & let him back out on the street !

   If you don't take someone telling you & everyone else he is going to kill people & not take it seriously , you could be in for a rude awakening . I can pretty much say from experience , that the Vegas shooter also was probably a nut case also & probably had a Mental heath record , but we will never hear about it .

SS you are right. A lot of people who belong in mental health facilities are now out on the street. A lot of them homeless. Whether you think highly of him or not, this started in the Reagan Administration, when government supported mental health facilities were severely cut back in funding. Call it Big Brother interference, or what not, there are people who need to be protected from harming themselves and society. The challenges are to prevent such places being used to excess for political suppression, which happens quite a bit in other countries. You can't get away with jailing your opponent? put him in a mental hospital. So you have to have strong oversight to prevent that.

[sketch]

1 hour ago, bubbas4570 said:

Problem with that is normally one can walk back out if voluntarily self committed.

 

Or am I wrong?

correct i call it free range.