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I have a friend who is starting his gunsmithing business.  He is looking for somewhere besides Brownells that carries the tools.  Any suggestions on where to look?  

This is what he sent when I asked what he needed.

"Fixing to shorten a barrel for a guy. Looking for barrel chamfering and facing tools along with muzzle radius tool."

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I wonder how I ran a gunsmith shop at three different places for 38 years without having any of those tools, .......maybe it was because I never worked on any AR or AK guns back then.

Edited by mrmackc

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27 minutes ago, mrmackc said:

maybe it was because I never worked on any AR or AK guns back then.

More likely all those fancy tools exist cause guys like me that aren't gunsmiths need good jigs and tools to stand a chance of getting it right...................or at least we think we do. :laffs:

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3 hours ago, Lonewolf McQuade said:

I call bullpoopy right off the bat.....

In front of a dozen of Doc's actual friends no less.... That was ballsy! :bat:

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3 minutes ago, Lonewolf McQuade said:

How so? You think I dont consider Doc a friend?

Well you said it yourself, look how many he's got on his payroll.... :laffs:

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3 minutes ago, Matt.Cross said:

Well you said it yourself, look how many he's got on his payroll.... :laffs:

🤣 $$ cut too many ways! My share is down to $4.37 a month, he pays me 3-.22lr shells every 4 weeks

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19 minutes ago, Lonewolf McQuade said:

🤣 $$ cut too many ways! My share is down to $4.37 a month, he pays me 3-.22lr shells every 4 weeks

He gives me free interest on a trigger that I've owed him for about 1.5 years now.  Or more...  One of these days, he's gonna show up again, and I need to produce that damn trigger...   Or he'll go all Mob-Boss on me... :bat:

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10 hours ago, Armed Eye Doc said:

I have a friend who is starting his gunsmithing business.  He is looking for somewhere besides Brownells that carries the tools. 

If he's gona fuk around with ARs, I'd highly suggest looking into RealAvid for AR tools.  They're pretty comprehensive, in their big kit.  After that, with ARs, tell him to just drop the money on a couple Geissele Reaction Rods - one for 5.56, and one for .308.  Buy a MagPul Armorers wrench.  No kidding. 

With that setup, he could do just about anything to any AR that walks into his shop.  :thumbup:

EDIT - P.S.  Buy a Wilton vise.

Edited by 98Z5V

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3 hours ago, 98Z5V said:

If he's gona fuk around with ARs, I'd highly suggest looking into RealAvid for AR tools.  They're pretty comprehensive, in their big kit.  After that, with ARs, tell him to just drop the money on a couple Geissele Reaction Rods - one for 5.56, and one for .308.  Buy a MagPul Armorers wrench.  No kidding. 

With that setup, he could do just about anything to any AR that walks into his shop.  :thumbup:

EDIT - P.S.  Buy a Wilton vise.

reaction rod is key! and armour wreench from all suitable venues  and a danm vice. 🍻🇺🇸

Edited by sketch
wheelers torque driver and scope mount kit.

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19 hours ago, shooterrex said:

Most people put the barrel in a lathe to do that kind of work.

Yeah, can’t imagine any other way. I also like the Avid tools and they are on my short list to buy. I’ve broken three armorer wrenches until the the magpul wrench came along....

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11 hours ago, jtallen83 said:

More likely all those fancy tools exist cause guys like me that aren't gunsmiths need good jigs and tools to stand a chance of getting it right...................or at least we think we do. :laffs:

 

11 hours ago, jtallen83 said:

More likely all those fancy tools exist cause guys like me that aren't gunsmiths need good jigs and tools to stand a chance of getting it right...................or at least we think we do. :laffs:

I didn't mean all those tools aren't useful,  back then you still had to gap and file distributor points in your 283 SBC engine and change the oil every 1500 miles. and use a paper road map from Mobil or Texaco to figure out how to get to grandma's house for Thanksgiving turkey and dressing!

Most gunsmithing jobs were  undoing owner abuse of their only gun, (kinda like now!) replacing broken stocks, stock refinishing, grinding off rust and polishing with a cloth wheel in order to hot reblue pistols,  rifles and shotguns  and of course drilling and taping to mount scopes, and aftermarket peep sights.  Very few guns had mechanical problems from the factories, when they did it was tedious work. Very few of us did custom mods and accuryizing.  Rebarreling required a big vise and a lot of arm strength.

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On 4/7/2021 at 9:01 PM, 98Z5V said:

If he's gona fuk around with ARs, I'd highly suggest looking into RealAvid for AR tools.  They're pretty comprehensive, in their big kit.  After that, with ARs, tell him to just drop the money on a couple Geissele Reaction Rods - one for 5.56, and one for .308.  Buy a MagPul Armorers wrench.  No kidding. 

 

The Geissele reaction rod design is suboptimal except for swapping muzzle devices.  There's a lot of friction between barrel nut and receiver threads.  Try to separate a tight enough one with torsional resistance only applied through the locking lugs and you'll break the barrel extension index pin or upper receiver.  You want a  design like Midwest Industries uses which locks barrel and upper together through a sail engaging the receiver charging handle channel.

The Magpul armorer's wrench also isn't the best choice. 

For tight barrel nuts a breaker bar with socket will give you more leverage and work for non-USGI applications.   I like the PRI USGI barrel nut socket.

For castle nuts and rifle buffer tubes you're better off with a crowfoot having less distance to the square drive.  I like Spike's castle nut socket which fits into tight spots, like the room left with a Smoke Composites carbon fiber stock.  I prefer a USGI tool over a 5/8" crowfoot for rifle tubes because it's completely flat.


SK breaker bar, Stahwille split beam torque wrench with fixed square drive installed for crowfoot use, .308 Midwest Industries reaction rod, PRI barrel nut socket, Spike's castle nut socket, USGI tool.

20210408_142708.thumb.jpg.8dc120847f09b94e3ba373b15693052a.jpg
 

 

Edited by Drew Eckhardt

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5 hours ago, Drew Eckhardt said:

 

The Geissele reaction rod design is suboptimal except for swapping muzzle devices.  There's a lot of friction between barrel nut and receiver threads.  Try to separate a tight enough one with torsional resistance only applied through the locking lugs and you'll break the barrel extension index pin or upper receiver.  You want a  design like Midwest Industries uses which locks barrel and upper together through a sail engaging the receiver charging handle channel.

The Magpul armorer's wrench also isn't the best choice. 

For tight barrel nuts a breaker bar with socket will give you more leverage and work for non-USGI applications.   I like the PRI USGI barrel nut socket.

For castle nuts and rifle buffer tubes you're better off with a crowfoot having less distance to the square drive.  I like Spike's castle nut socket which fits into tight spots, like the room left with a Smoke Composites carbon fiber stock.  I prefer a USGI tool over a 5/8" crowfoot for rifle tubes because it's completely flat.


SK breaker bar, Stahwille split beam torque wrench with fixed square drive installed for crowfoot use, .308 Midwest Industries reaction rod, PRI barrel nut socket, Spike's castle nut socket, USGI tool.

The only thing I agree with here is the use of the PRI barrel nut device, and I have one.

Everything else you've stated, I do not agree with, especially that recommendation of the Midwest rod over a real Geissele tool.  On a Geissele, I can index the upper any way I want in the vise, by rotating it and sliding it back onto the rod.  I can work on the bottom of a handguard, the left side, right side - can't do that with a Midwest. 

Your supposition on breaking an index pin or tearing up an upper receiver is just that - supposition.  It's not grounded in reality.  If you break an index pin, you replace it.  The upper is contained (threaded) inside the barrel nut, so nothing is going to happen to it. 

My .308 Reaction Rod stays at the gunshop, for my Gun Pusher to use, and when I need it for my own stuff, I go get it from him.  He usually doesn't build the Large Frame ARs in the shop, just the 5.56 and other-caliber small-frame stuff.  I go in there and build the Large Frames for him.  He has his own 5.56 Reaction Rod, and it's built thousands of uppers, never an issue like anything that you're describing.  You have a tight barrel nut?  Put the right tool on it, and give the end of the breaker bar a sharp whack with a 2lb dead-blow hammer.  It breaks free instantly.  Unless some dumbass used Loc-Tite on his barrel nut.  If it doesn't break free instantly - you know someone built it wrong, and used Loc-Tite.  On an unrelated note, if your barrel manufacturers are building their barrels right, the barrel extension is torqued on there to 175lb/ft.  You should never be able to get a barrel extension to loosed from a barrel, doing common barrel work - unless you truly intend to remove the extension, and are using the right barrel extension tool.  I know you made no mention of that - I'm just throwing that in there.

My torque wrenches are Snap-On, so I hope those meet the minimum standard.  So is my 1/4" torque driver.

Edited by 98Z5V

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