6.5 creed questions

[98Z5V]

2 hours ago, JBMatt said:

Hit a 30" plate at a mile

We've both hit the IPSC plate at that mile, too. 

16 hours ago, PfcSnuffy said:

What bullet are you using and at what velocity? Powder?

 

Most precision shooting will use a seating die and a press. They put the bullet in, assemble the die and invert it. This makes powder fill the shoulder area around base of bullet. Keep in mind the primer is now at 12oclock, projectile at 6. Powder fills areas that cannot be filled when the primer is at 6oclock.

 

It reduces the amount of crushing powder grains. Between that, uniform primer pockets and necks... people say it reduces ES. Enough those silly BR guys do this stuff regularly.

 

Why not use the 130 otm over the 140's? The higher velocity and similar bc would almost make a flatter shot. Granted more drift, but.. better for unknown distances.

 

The issue is, 30cals in the 150-155 range that could perform a better unknown distance shooting tend to be very secant and.. from my understand a real pain about getting good groupings from in gasgun.

 

So, you are telling me with equal case prep and reloading.. good powder and projectiles.. I would not see much difference shooting to 800m?

 

Which powders, projectiles and general charge weights?

 

I thought about picking up some imr 3031 the other day. Had a chance. Then, running a 155 to 168 weight bullet. Loading for smallest groups and just dropping them indirect fire style downrange. Though, I am not entirely sold.

 

I was asking about different grips - if anyone has a bunch for some comparisons of opinion.

You're asking for alot - that's already been posted.  All my load data is posted.  I've never heard of some of the shiit that you're talking about for making a precision load for a gas gun - upside down case?  Nope, first I've heard, and it's not necessary to make accurate ammunition.  Neck bushings?  That's bolt-gun shiit, right there.  For gas guns, you need to be crimping these things, not "adjusting neck tension" with different sized bushings.  Crimp, for real. 

I use IMR 3031 for my 405gr 45-70 loads.  Not for my .308 Win loads.  Better powders out there for the .308 heavies. Way better powders out there if you get into this .264 / 6.5mm game.  I'd use IMR 3031 as a backup powder for my 300 BLK loads and my .30 Carbine loads, though.  But it's not my primary powder for either of those.

[98Z5V]

Since you're "AD Military" in your first post here, I'm sure you know that the statement will get you praises for your service - but, as you probably already know, as AD Military - not many people in the service are "gun people."  Many don't even know how their issued gas gun even fucking works.  Very few in the .mil world are gun people, unless they've been bitten by the bug after real Sniper training, or Designated Marksman training.    Most .mil people have no idea how to read the wind and make corrections.  No clue. 

So, in full disclosure, I spent 21.5 years in, and punched out at that point.  I WAS a gun guy, whilst in, and pushed all my people HARD to learn the way the AR worked, why and how it worked, to better understand how to clear it when it fucked up.  No matter what the weapons platform was, Mk19, M2, 203s and M-79s, 240s and 249s, the 60 in the old days,  whatever. 

[edgecrusher]

You said people drop a powder load in through the bottom. How the hell do they then seat the primer? I’m relatively new to reloading but have several thousand rounds under my belt and that one definitely had me wondering wtf.
 

Also, like 98 said, gas guns crimping is necessary. And you are incorrect on the lighter projectiles performing as well as the heavier ones. You’ll fight wind drift far more than you would with a heavy. Let me ask you another thing, why would crushing of powder matter in the least? Do you really think a small grain of powder would be less efficient? Chemical make up decides burn rate more than the size in a general sense, especially if you’re only talking about a few near where the bullet is seated in the case.

[98Z5V]

7 minutes ago, edgecrusher said:

why would crushing of powder matter in the least?

Exactly  - Compressed load is compressed load. 

Not all loads are compressed loads, either.  Very few.  I come close to a few on some of mine, but don't get that "CRUNCH" on them.  It doesn't matter in the least on a gas gun, if you crunch it by seating the projectile, or turn it upside down and crunch it in the base, at the primer flash hole.  Compressed load is compressed load. 

If there is space-in-the-case, and you're not loaded to 100% case capacity, then the powder moves IN the case.  Doesn't matter if you loaded it normally, or upside down... 

[edgecrusher]

I still want to know how to seat a primer upside down

[PfcSnuffy]

Hmm... impressive derailing. Also attacks.. hell yes.

 

Appreciated.

 

For you all not following - because I am not going to dredge a bunch of precision reloading links..

 

You use a 10" powder drop. Put powder in. Settle the powder. Place projectile in neck. Insert into seating die. Invert die. Use arbor press.

 

The powder displaces differently. Maybe it is some backwater hoodoo, but those guys are claiming single digits for SD and ES. It seems the powder fills the empty spaces in cartridge. Most of my accurate loads were... around the datum point or slightly lower. We can argue what 100% case fill is. Maybe you mean literally to the top of neck... also, pending seating depths versus the physical shape of projectile you may be surprised what is actually 'compressed' or not. Point being, some of those loads may or may not be compressed due to actual lack of volume.

 

Once more appreciated. For large amounts of information. Especially salted sergeant major's... it seems like at a point - when person A mentions something... if person B feels any way other than comfy.. there are attacks made.

 

Reading this rapid derailing seems just to cement that.

[dpete]

aaaaanddd we're off!  

[JBMatt]

3 hours ago, PfcSnuffy said:

it seems like at a point - when person A mentions something... if person B feels any way other than comfy.. there are attacks made.

Alright, I kinda got drug into this diatribe, so now I feel like I need to throw in my $0.02.  Wanted or unwanted.  From the outside looking in, you appear to have read every single thing that is a thing about what you're wanting to do or build, even though that is still not exactly clear.  Maybe you've talked to a few people "in the know".  Half of what you've said/asked about makes no difference for what you are doing or attempting to do.  Some of it is totally unnecessary.  Literally splitting hairs and the improvements will only be seen in a controlled environment with an expert/champion shooter that has a rifle where the groups are measured to the .0001".  Some of what you've said is interesting.  It probably worked for someone, somewhere at some time I have no doubt.

That being said, the resistance that you are identifying is because the majority of us have learned all this by doing it.  We've set a goal, built a rig, loaded the rounds and went and tested to get our results.  Rinse.  Repeat.  A dream parts list on paper might look good and sound like a real winner, but when it's all put together you'll quickly learn that some of that schitt doesn't make a hill of beans difference or you paid a lot of money for a part that just flat out doesn't work as intended.  But on paper and in theory it should work!  Because every rig works differently, every shoulder holds it differently, every eye sees it differently and every finger pulls it differently.  And there's a lot of things that make more of a difference that you've kind of just skipped over.  Just my observation from reading what's here, but it's easy to assume that all of the things you listed in the posts above are from research and not your real world experience.  Correct me if I'm wrong, but that's how it comes across.  Granted, some people may have done some things and others may have done other things that work, but the only real way to know is to build it and do it.  For yourself.  What works for that guy may not necessarily work for you and that goes for information received here, as well.  Go through all the steps, buy all the high dollar stuff, spend all the time doing everything awesome and badass and go test it.  Then get back to us with the results.  All it is now is piss in the wind until it's proven.  You've thrown around different ideas/theories.  Some will stick, others will not.  I have a feeling that you'll end up ditching half the parts/procedures you've talked about as the time/effort just won't be worth it in the end.

Around here, we run our bolt, not our mouth.  While we may not know everything, we definitely know enough to get the job done and we know BS when we hear it.  There's something to be said about being able to out perform your equipment, and it comes across that you're armchair quarterbacking this so far.  You can build a 10 second drag car on paper, but what matters is where the rubber meets the road.

Enjoy the journey.

[unforgiven]

Well said brother, that would be a great preface for the forum followed by Adios should said information be uncomfortable. 

[98Z5V]

16 hours ago, PfcSnuffy said:

Hmm... impressive derailing. Also attacks.. hell yes.

Once more appreciated. For large amounts of information. Especially salted sergeant major's... it seems like at a point - when person A mentions something... if person B feels any way other than comfy.. there are attacks made.

Reading this rapid derailing seems just to cement that.

You haven't been attacked, at all, and you know.  You can make this about drama, or stick to your (various) topics presented here.

Nobody in this entire thread "attacked" you in any way, shape or form.   We've been patiently providing our side of what you've been putting in here, since the beginning.  If you feel like you've been attacked - then toughen up. You haven't.

Shiit, you still haven't even posted an Intro thread and told us about yourself.  Why don't you hit that up and accomplish that task.  What exactly is it that you do in AD Military?

[blue109]

I would NOT trust any loading or shooting advice from this scrub. 

[JBMatt]

15 minutes ago, blue109 said:

I would NOT trust any loading or shooting advice from this scrub. 

It's obvious he doesn't know what he's doing...  🤷‍♂️

Edited September 9, 2021 by JBMatt

[BigNate]

Well... he is low and right... 🤣

[BigNate]

8 minutes ago, BigNate said:

Well... he is low and right... 🤣

and now paranoia sets in...   If you can't tell by the laughing emoji...  this was an attempt at humor.   Fantastic group!

[DNP]

Don’t worry. They have thick skin, and not just from the AZ sun.
 

I just question how many were thrown to land three….

[Sisco]

On 9/8/2021 at 2:40 PM, unforgiven said:

Well said brother, that would be a great preface for the forum followed by Adios should said information be uncomfortable. 

+1 Should pin JB Matt’s post  somewhere. Well said.

[JBMatt]

5 hours ago, DNP said:

Don’t worry. They have thick skin, and not just from the AZ sun.
 

I just question how many were thrown to land three….

Lol.  That was actually 3 out of 4 shots.  The 4th was just off plate to the right.  Minorly misleading, but it wasn't much more than a 12"-14" group.  Good enough for this red neck.

[Rsquared]

7 hours ago, DNP said:

Don’t worry. They have thick skin, and not just from the AZ sun.
 

I just question how many were thrown to land three….

 

1 hour ago, JBMatt said:

Lol.  That was actually 3 out of 4 shots.  The 4th was just off plate to the right.  Minorly misleading, but it wasn't much more than a 12"-14" group.  Good enough for this red neck.

I knew I fukin hated this guy (probably out of jealousy) for some reason.

Edited September 11, 2021 by Rsquared

[98Z5V]

8 hours ago, DNP said:

I just question how many were thrown to land three….

He pissed me off with this one.  Bad.  That was 3 out of 4, right there.  He was ON THE MONEY right when the wind died, and that was the last 4 rounds in his mag.  That fuqr. 

[98Z5V]

2 hours ago, JBMatt said:

Lol.  That was actually 3 out of 4 shots.  The 4th was just off plate to the right.  Minorly misleading, but it wasn't much more than a 12"-14" group.  Good enough for this red neck.

Oh, I see he already replied - that's what I get for reading-and-replying, instead of reading all the way to the end BEFORE replying...  

[98Z5V]

7 hours ago, Sisco said:

+1 Should pin JB Matt’s post  somewhere. Well said.

I whole-heartedly agree with this.  That is legendary material, right there, and full-on worthy of being pinned, all by itself.

[98Z5V]

19 minutes ago, 98Z5V said:

I whole-heartedly agree with this.  That is legendary material, right there, and full-on worthy of being pinned, all by itself.

Decided to do it myself.  It's in the "What you need to know" section...