Belt Fed Posted November 26, 2021 Report Share Posted November 26, 2021 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Doodle Posted November 26, 2021 Report Share Posted November 26, 2021 Self defense does not apply if you leave, return, and become the aggressor. Castle doctrine may also not apply as this occurred outside the home. Depends on state laws, of course. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Belt Fed Posted November 26, 2021 Author Report Share Posted November 26, 2021 Neither one used any common sense, when he went in the cops should have been called, dude in green shirt is a total idiot. guy comes out with a gun and you get in his face. sheesh, the stupidity. he also was on his property raising hell. would say if he already had the gun it may be justified, but when the guy let him go in the house and he came back with one he may be in trouble. it being in Texas might go better for the shooter. their laws are pretty laxed on that stuff.I don't know what the outcome of that one will be, he got away and came back with gun, the prosecution will say he should have called law enforcement, idiot is on his property and was the aggressor. the defendant will use that as his defense. Liable to be some arguing in that jury room. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
blue109 Posted November 26, 2021 Report Share Posted November 26, 2021 Domestic situations involving children/custody will always be a shitsh0w due to our unbelievably corrupt family law system. This whole situation sucks. The shooter will probably go down, and I feel for him because if I was in that situation where my wife's ex is screaming at her in my front yard and he pushes me into the house, I might let my common sense go down the toilet and do something dumb as well. The wife should have gone inside immediately. If ex had tried to stop her, or come in after her, force might be justified. In this case, I don't really think so. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Robocop1051 Posted November 26, 2021 Report Share Posted November 26, 2021 I pick no sides on this. it looks like a bully finally got what was coming to him… and a douche bag attorney finally bit off more than he could chew. in either case, a boy now grows up without a father. Shame on both of them for creating this life for him. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Matt.Cross Posted November 26, 2021 Report Share Posted November 26, 2021 #1. Dude was asked to leave the property, should've been over right there and then. #2. Shooter has the right to be armed under any circumstances on his own property, whether or not there's a situation that could escalate. #3. Shooter is armed and threat turns aggressor, in what world would we not consider it basic logic that if I'm clearly armed and you decide to try to assault me anyways that you're clearly a deadly threat because you're ignoring or trying to supersede a deadly defense. I can see where an argument might be made for the first shot into the ground, but it's not a compelling argument. Also, I'm not inclined to defend a 'warning shot' because I don't believe in using them. Considering those three facts along with the potential threat to the aggressor's ex, I'd call it justified. The moral of this story is that trespassing is the wrong hill to die on when you're trying to settle a custody dispute. Get off my property needs to mean something. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
unforgiven Posted November 26, 2021 Report Share Posted November 26, 2021 Domestic situation is the most dangerous Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
98Z5V Posted November 27, 2021 Report Share Posted November 27, 2021 5 hours ago, Matt.Cross said: #3. Shooter is armed and threat turns aggressor, in what world would we not consider it basic logic that if I'm clearly armed and you decide to try to assault me anyways that you're clearly a deadly threat because you're ignoring or trying to supersede a deadly defense. I can see where an argument might be made for the first shot into the ground, but it's not a compelling argument. Also, I'm not inclined to defend a 'warning shot' because I don't believe in using them. This right here - but it's all gonna come down to "brandishing a firearm" in the court of law. "Brandishing" is gonna be what decides this... The dude in the green short did try to take his gun. That's on video. Green shirt DID state, "I'll TAKE IT FROM YOU, MOTHERFUCKER!!!"... I'm just sayin'... IMHO, the dude in the green shirt is a fucking asshead, and finally pushed the whole *extended family* beyond the point that anyone could take. Domestic just plains fucking SUCKS. There's WAY MORE to this story. We just don't know it yet. Not enough information. No way to tell, with two aggressors mixed in there, at the same time. Short story long, that aggressive sum'bitch in the green shirt - isn't anymore. He'll never be a "family problem" again. That's my read on it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
98Z5V Posted November 27, 2021 Report Share Posted November 27, 2021 (edited) 11 hours ago, Doodle said: Self defense does not apply if you leave, return, and become the aggressor. That's tough, here - the dude in the green shirt never left, and kept pushing... And wouldn't stop. I'll tell someone to leave my front porch. They can leave, or not, and if they persist, they WILL leave my front porch - that is MY domain, not theirs. They don't have a right to MY property, no matter what. That'll be a sticking point in this case, especially with the video that is out there... Again, my read on it... Edited November 27, 2021 by 98Z5V Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Matt.Cross Posted November 27, 2021 Report Share Posted November 27, 2021 On 11/26/2021 at 10:42 PM, 98Z5V said: This right here - but it's all gonna come down to "brandishing a firearm" in the court of law. "Brandishing" is gonna be what decides this... I'd call that a safe bet, it works by my math. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Robocop1051 Posted November 27, 2021 Report Share Posted November 27, 2021 right or wrong… Can we acknowledge the performance of the Ruger PC Carbine? I own 5 or 6 of those sonsabitches! That little 9mm folded dude up like laundry right out the dryer. ***I already checked, and dude is NOT one of my customers. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Matt.Cross Posted November 27, 2021 Report Share Posted November 27, 2021 On 11/27/2021 at 1:13 AM, Robocop1051 said: right or wrong… Can we acknowledge the performance of the Ruger PC Carbine? I own 5 or 6 of those sonsabitches! That little 9mm folded dude up like laundry right out the dryer. ***I already checked, and dude is NOT one of my customers. LOL I didn't want to say it, but that's the actual very 1st thing I thought about, Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Doodle Posted November 27, 2021 Report Share Posted November 27, 2021 3 hours ago, 98Z5V said: That's tough, here - the dude in the green shirt never left, and kept pushing... And wouldn't stop. I'll tell someone to leave my front porch. They can leave, or not, and if they persist, they WILL leave my front porch - that is MY domain, not theirs. They don't have a right to MY property, no matter what. That'll be a sticking point in this case, especially with the video that is out there... Again, my read on it... 98 you are indeed one of the reasons I'm on this forum. An utter wealth of knowledge and one the the best m'fers on this forum. I'm betting there's a ton of semi lurkers like I am, and we look to you for more technical knowledge than anyone will find anywhere else. But, this kid should go to prison in my state, imo. He did not call law enforcement and came back looking for a fight, which he got and provoked. The shooter knew exactly what he was looking for. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sketch Posted November 27, 2021 Report Share Posted November 27, 2021 I'd hope to see a restraining order on green guy to be a reasonable shoot. This isn't in my wheel house to decide with limited info. He was agro first, and that was bad life decisions. As been in a court decided child situation, it is best for the kids to keep your head and act like an adult. The shooter here is also not making this any better. Again I dono maybe this is a state that defunds the proper people to handle this and it had to be delt with? The full story will come out. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Doodle Posted November 27, 2021 Report Share Posted November 27, 2021 14 hours ago, Belt Fed said: Neither one used any common sense, Exactly. There would have been day when someone could have punched someone in the mouth. And that would have been the end of it! Everyone loses here. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Matt.Cross Posted November 27, 2021 Report Share Posted November 27, 2021 On 11/27/2021 at 2:01 AM, Doodle said: He did not call law enforcement and came back looking for a fight, which he got and provoked. The shooter knew exactly what he was looking for. I'm confused, do you mean the shooter didn't call LEO, or the aggressor didn't call LEO? Or both, and is that something you know, or conjecture? Did the shooter know exactly what he himself (shooter) was looking for, or are you saying the shooter knew what the aggressor was looking for? I'm not being facetious with you, as you're a new member and I don't know you well enough to mistreat you (yet), but it's 2am where I am and apart from saying the shooter should go to jail, your meaning is otherwise unclear. Oh, and welcome to the forums! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Doodle Posted November 27, 2021 Report Share Posted November 27, 2021 (edited) The shooter did not call LEO. And he came back looking for a fight, making the shooter the aggressor (based solely on the video). If you leave and come back with a firearm, can any observer think you have not escalated the situation and become the aggressor? It's 2 am here. Am only online cause its Thanksgiving and I'm post several barley pops, so yeah, who knows what I'm saying! Anyhoo, yes, I'm still of the opinion that the shooter should be in prison. He got exactly what he intended and was looking for, to kill some one. Now, had the teal shirt guy jumped on the shooter (before he left and came back with a gun) and the shooter shot the teal shirt guy, I'd think very differently. Please, this is based solely on the video. Edited November 27, 2021 by Doodle changed barely to barley Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Matt.Cross Posted November 27, 2021 Report Share Posted November 27, 2021 On 11/27/2021 at 2:28 AM, Doodle said: The shooter did not call LEO. And he came back looking for a fight, making the shooter the aggressor (based solely on the video). If you leave and come back with a firearm, can any observer think you have not escalated the situation and become the aggressor? It's 2 am here. Am only online cause its Thanksgiving and I'm post several barley pops, so yeah, who knows what I'm saying! Anyhoo, yes, I'm still of the opinion that the shooter should be in prison. He got exactly what he intended and was looking for, to kill some one. Now, had the teal shirt guy jumped on the shooter (before he left and came back with a gun) and the shooter shot the teal shirt guy, I'd think very differently. Please, this is based solely on the video. Okay, gotcha, thanks for clarifying. I don't like jumping to conclusions, if I don't understand the argument I'll say so and spare myself the embarrassment of assuming. I don't know that the shooter didn't call LEO, I saw nothing to suggest that he had or had not, so that's a moot point for me. I'm not with you on the shooter leaving, the shooter was on his property the whole time, had no obligation or duty to leave, especially with an aggressive bozo getting nasty with the spouse. It might be what some folks would do, but it's not what I would do. Coming back with a gun after said bozo has been asked to leave and is now trespassing and getting nasty with the spouse? You can wait until he snaps her neck if you want... Me, I'd have just gone and gotten the gun, like the guy who is still alive did. As an aside, asking the aggressor to leave satisfies any obligation to attempt to de-escalate the situation. As for whether or not he was looking to kill the guy, I won't pretend to know his motives, but I have to admit that there's plenty of justification for what he did that meets the standards of the presumption of innocence and reasonable doubt. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sketch Posted November 27, 2021 Report Share Posted November 27, 2021 One thing I can take from this is social media has a hold on a jury of bias . The phone was recording instead of calling authorities or was pre called? . And posted for the www. So we can see stupid irl. Our jury will soon be the new people invited here with no social media and no status in the US. Just a thought. Rum involved don't judge me. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
blue109 Posted November 27, 2021 Report Share Posted November 27, 2021 It's a sad commentary on our society when people's first thought is we need police to defend us. What doodle says is probably how the jury will look at it, and that's some bullish. I'm with @98Z5V here in that if someone is on my porch and they refuse to leave ...they are going to leave. Easy way or hard way. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DNP Posted November 27, 2021 Report Share Posted November 27, 2021 As far as punching someone in the mouth…it’s a total guess on my end, but it looks like green guy would destroy douchebag. I don’t know that you need to let someone destroy you on your own porch. Not picking sides exactly, just thinking through that portion of it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
blue109 Posted November 27, 2021 Report Share Posted November 27, 2021 I keep an expanding baton, a small aluminum bat, a pistol, and an AR in my truck at all times. I can escalate as force disparity requires lol. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Magwa Posted November 27, 2021 Report Share Posted November 27, 2021 I just start the backhoe works every time ....... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
unforgiven Posted November 27, 2021 Report Share Posted November 27, 2021 My hands are so arthritic I have to shoot. I got a medical out Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
98Z5V Posted November 27, 2021 Report Share Posted November 27, 2021 11 hours ago, blue109 said: It's a sad commentary on our society when people's first thought is we need police to defend us. What doodle says is probably how the jury will look at it, and that's some bullish. I'm with @98Z5V here in that if someone is on my porch and they refuse to leave ...they are going to leave. Easy way or hard way. Here, here! If I told you to get the fuk off my property, when you're at my front door, yelling and being all agro - you have ONCE CHANCE to leave. Now, where the gun guy fucked up, before he went and got his gun, - all my humble opinion here - is he didn't do one thing... Looking at it now, just in videos, with all the aggression going on from green shirt... Here's what I would have done, AND THEN turned inside and got my gun. If he would've DONE THIS, and green shirt is still there, AFTER THIS, it definitely proves that green shirt is super-aggressive, and want more, and now he's gonna get more. Planted back foot, full force fucking front snap kick to the sternum, and LAUNCH that motherfucker backwards off my front porch. NOW. Don't look where he lands, who cares. He's gonna need a minute to catch his breath anyway, so that buys time. Turn inside, grab PC Carbine, and return to the front door. If he's coming at me, pop pop. Done. I don't know if this was a clean shoot or not, that's for a jury to decide. I know that green shirt guy is a fucking maniac, and he was not going to stop the escalation of this, even when faced with a firearm. He thought he was 10 feet tall, 3 rows of teeth 2 coats of hair, and bulletproof. That's just not real for him though. There can only be one of us like that... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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