This video shows you what manufacturers DO NOT KNOW...

[98Z5V]

This video SHOWS you right here, what Large Frame manufacturers have no fucking clue about, and why they make fucked up guns  -that WE have to deal with here, on this board, routinely.

Watch this:

 

Now, I'd like to discuss this -like I haven't, for YEARS here - and find out what's going on here?!  Apparently, MAC is fed up, and venting his frustration with all this.  With his vid.

We've SOLVED all these problems here, YEARS ago, if you've been paying attention for the long term.  BALANCE YOUR GAS SYSTEM AND RECOIL SYSTEM!!!  Eugene Stoner made the damn thing work, but the aftermarket STILL can't figure that out.  Balance the two systems...

At any rate - fire off your comments here, let it RIP!!!

 

Edited April 8, 2023 by 98Z5V

[shooterrex]

He does seem to be a fan of the "shortened" AR10 clone guns.

Should we ask him to review Palmetto's large frame guns????

[98Z5V]

20 hours ago, shooterrex said:

Should we ask him to review Palmetto's large frame guns????

That would be sweet...  

[98Z5V]

Looks like all the AR15 Gun-Reviewers from Youtube are jumpinig all over this new Ruger SFAR.  It's kinda sad, in a big way, with what they're saying, inside their reviews.  It just shows how much they DON'T know about Large Frame ARs, in the least.  It's pretty fucking pathetic, when you see it, and all - ALL - these guys are "the professionals to be trusted."  They were clueless about Large Frames.  THEN, Ruger dumped the SFAR, and they're all learning now.

Look at, listen to, watch,   ...  all the comments here.  We solved every single issue brought up in this vid, functionally, ...  YEARS ago.

Now, the Big YT Players are getting into it.  And they're not doing well, with functionality.

Check it:

 

[JT303]

98 said it perfectly. Balance your Gas and Recoil system. 

Funny how manufactures all make such different unique parts for their own "flair" version without "truly" testing/reliability.

I don't claim to be an expert on anything but something tells me that some manufactures TEST their system quantitively rather than individually. 

I think of it like car manufactures. There is quite a big difference from one car brand to another. Some are built to last yet many aren't, but they don't tell that to the public.

Building a 308 is challenging but I wanted to learn how to fix it myself. Learning how the system works yourself is self-teaching you how to become more skilled and knowledgeable in the platforms. 

Sure, go ahead and pick any AR15 brand out there and most will work, but of all I have seen in my life the quality and build varies from one extreme to the other.

Thanks to the many here that continue to help and refine the issues that can occur.

Without this forum? You'll be back to buying "Hayes" manuals just to figure out how to change your tire.

Stay safe.     

 

[JT303]

On 4/8/2023 at 10:53 PM, 98Z5V said:

Looks like all the AR15 Gun-Reviewers from Youtube are jumpinig all over this new Ruger SFAR.  It's kinda sad, in a big way, with what they're saying, inside their reviews.  It just shows how much they DON'T know about Large Frame ARs, in the least.  It's pretty fucking pathetic, when you see it, and all - ALL - these guys are "the professionals to be trusted."  They were clueless about Large Frames.  THEN, Ruger dumped the SFAR, and they're all learning now.

Look at, listen to, watch,   ...  all the comments here.  We solved every single issue brought up in this vid, functionally, ...  YEARS ago.

Now, the Big YT Players are getting into it.  And they're not doing well, with functionality.

Check it:

 

Scary reviews and comments.........yikes. 

I am a big believer in barrel break in's. (Having shot and been taught by AMU and service time). 

Ripping off 200 without cleaning? Well, good luck with your accuracy after dropping a few grand. 

[JT303]

😆 And also Manufactures use substandard parts.

Edited April 10, 2023 by JT303
wrong post

[98Z5V]

9 hours ago, JT303 said:

😆 And also Manufactures use substandard parts.

They will, too - it's about profit margins, more than anything.  I mean, you can't put a perfect gun out the door at a competitive price, perfect in every way, that battles the price differential of a budget gun - you lose money that way.  That's why you'll have a DD gun, the KAC SR-25 guns...   You are gonna PAY for those - but they work...  DPMS (the ORIGINAL DPMS) had it figured out, with the LR-308, with carbine recoil systems -but they used their own spring, and taht thing made it work right.  The NEW DPMS?  Well, Remington fuqd that up, proper, by going under, and getting parted out.  That's just a PSA PA-10 Gen 3, with different markings on the lower receiver.  Nothing more.

The best you'll ever do on a "budget gun" in the Large Frame is the Armalite DEF-10.  It's about a grand - but it's all working right, has the right parts, and won't fuq up on you.

Other "budget gun makers" think that you can get away with a 3.8oz buffer, some recoil spring (that might actually be an AR15 Carbine spring), some shortass 7.000" internal depth receiver extension, and 2.500" buffers.  You can band-aid those short recoil systems to work, and they'll work - but that doesn't mean that's "optimal" and where you want to be on the gun.  After that cheapass recoil system, compromises need to be made to the gas system, to get the gun to function, most of the time.  The $$$ behind the recoil system is the driver in all this, because tungsten and stainless steel are expensive.  They go cheap(er) on recoil parts.  THEN, they need to "dumb-down" the gas system, make the port smaller to function a too-light recoil system, and they'll just use AR15 midlength gas tubes, or AR15 rifle gas tubes.  Eh, good enough for most people, shooting most ammo, most of the time.  Yeah.  Not. 

Even the BEND in the two different system's gas tubes is supposed to be different...  AR15 to Large Frame.  Height-Over-Bore should scream out at people, if they even knew the difference in the first place...   Most don't.

Enough for now - this is all about profit margins.  Cheap guns that aren't built right will definitely hit that occasion where they DON'T WORK right.   I'm off this soap box for tonight on this one...

Edited April 11, 2023 by 98Z5V

[JT303]

11 hours ago, 98Z5V said:

They will, too - it's about profit margins, more than anything.  I mean, you can't put a perfect gun out the door at a competitive price, perfect in every way, that battles the price differential of a budget gun - you lose money that way.  That's why you'll have a DD gun, the KAC SR-25 guns...   You are gonna PAY for those - but they work...  DPMS (the ORIGINAL DPMS) had it figured out, with the LR-308, with carbine recoil systems -but they used their own spring, and taht thing made it work right.  The NEW DPMS?  Well, Remington fuqd that up, proper, by going under, and getting parted out.  That's just a PSA PA-10 Gen 3, with different markings on the lower receiver.  Nothing more.

The best you'll ever do on a "budget gun" in the Large Frame is the Armalite DEF-10.  It's about a grand - but it's all working right, has the right parts, and won't fuq up on you.

Other "budget gun makers" think that you can get away with a 3.8oz buffer, some recoil spring (that might actually be an AR15 Carbine spring), some shortass 7.000" internal depth receiver extension, and 2.500" buffers.  You can band-aid those short recoil systems to work, and they'll work - but that doesn't mean that's "optimal" and where you want to be on the gun.  After that cheapass recoil system, compromises need to be made to the gas system, to get the gun to function, most of the time.  The $$$ behind the recoil system is the driver in all this, because tungsten and stainless steel are expensive.  They go cheap(er) on recoil parts.  THEN, they need to "dumb-down" the gas system, make the port smaller to function a too-light recoil system, and they'll just use AR15 midlength gas tubes, or AR15 rifle gas tubes.  Eh, good enough for most people, shooting most ammo, most of the time.  Yeah.  Not. 

Even the BEND in the two different system's gas tubes is supposed to be different...  AR15 to Large Frame.  Height-Over-Bore should scream out at people, if they even knew the difference in the first place...   Most don't.

Enough for now - this is all about profit margins.  Cheap guns that aren't built right will definitely hit that occasion where they DON'T WORK right.   I'm off this soap box for tonight on this one...

Absolutely correct. 

I didn't have that great of an experience with the KAC SR25 (M110) in my service time. BUT they were early models. Functional more yes than no, tunable yes, effective, yes. But also (back then) having to ONLY use what 762 was around (de-linked stuff...yikes). And in my humble opinion, didn't think it was really optimized for M118LR which was the best you could get. (You know Geneva conv rules and all). But it was better than my M4 and M108. (Personally, I liked the M240B).

Also, big fan of DD. Quality control is key.   

Profit margins even effected old Uncle Sam too. I think it still does to an extent. Yet, these company's' today (including the once mighty Remington) all cut corners on perfected systems. These companies all want the big Gov contracts too. Funny how Proof perfected a great barrel, and got a G contract. (Makes me want to go work for them).  

I guess I would have to say, if I owned a manufacturing company that wants to make a great AR308/AR10, I would take the best of the best working systems and just make those standard measurements. Do the hard break in work and make sure each and every system goes out the door with a broken in barrel and guaranteed to meet what the customer truly wants. If its not broke, don't fix it. Right? If it doesn't work, fix it and make sure every other one is too. (SIG P320 unintentional discharge issues ring a bell?) 

Sadly, everyone has to be unique and have their "own" specialness.  

 Stay safe  

[Sisco]

13 hours ago, 98Z5V said:

The best you'll ever do on a "budget gun" in the Large Frame is the Armalite DEF-10.  It's about a grand - but it's all working right, has the right parts, and won't fuq up on you.

 

1 hour ago, JT303 said:

I guess I would have to say, if I owned a manufacturing company that wants to make a great AR308/AR10, I would take the best of the best working systems and just make those standard measurements. Do the hard break in work and make sure each and every system goes out the door with a broken in barrel and to shoot.

I have never built a 308 AR, probably because I started with an Armalite AR 10, which as 98Z says works like it should out of the box, and in answer to JT303’s comment, it has been done by Armalite. Armalite since Surgeon has taken them over has practically disappeared as a company, but their rifles work, and do what they are supposed to do. 

[JT303]

1 hour ago, Sisco said:

 

I have never built a 308 AR, probably because I started with an Armalite AR 10, which as 98Z says works like it should out of the box, and in answer to JT303’s comment, it has been done by Armalite. Armalite since Surgeon has taken them over has practically disappeared as a company, but their rifles work, and do what they are supposed to do. 

I didn't know that Armalite was bought out at all. Would love to own a surgeon rifle one day for that reason. They work ! 🙂

Found this:

In 2013, Westrom sold ArmaLite, Inc. to Strategic Armory Corps, owner of AWC Silencers, Surgeon Rifles, Nexus Ammo, and McMillan Firearms. Strategic Armory Corps was formed to acquire and combine firearm companies 

1.  "Strategic Armory Corps". Strategic Armory Corps. SAC Firearms. Retrieved November 10, 2015.
2. https://www.sacfirearms.com/

My only gripe is Armalite HQ was in IL. Nothing works like it should in this state...............lol (but that's politics for ya)

[arm_usa]

I couldn’t agree more about balancing out your gas and recoil system. I gotta watch these vids when I get a chance. 
 

all I’ve seen is manufactures trying to “reinvent the wheel”.  

[StarWolf]

I've got a bud with an Armalite rifle and an Armalite Carbine.

He wants a SFAR bad. Although in his words he doesn't NEED it. The price and the weight are very tempting to him.

[MtnMike]

I'm a bit like your Bud. I've got two excellent AR308s, a Windham & a DD.  But the weight and price of the SFAR are tempting.  I actually looked hard and long at the POF Revolution before I bought the DD.  Again the weight made it very tempting, though at a much higher price.  Ultimately I didn't get the POF because I ran across a lot of folks online who had reliability issues. I do not tolerate an unreliable weapon.  I'm hopeful the SFAR will get there with Ruger's resources. I've got one of their AR556 MPRs that runs like a Timex. And, I've long been a fan and owner of the 10/22.  But it doesn't sound like the SFAR is there at present.

[98Z5V]

On 4/29/2023 at 5:32 AM, MtnMike said:

I'm a bit like your Bud. I've got two excellent AR308s, a Windham & a DD.  But the weight and price of the SFAR are tempting.  I actually looked hard and long at the POF Revolution before I bought the DD.  Again the weight made it very tempting, though at a much higher price.  Ultimately I didn't get the POF because I ran across a lot of folks online who had reliability issues. I do not tolerate an unreliable weapon.  I'm hopeful the SFAR will get there with Ruger's resources. I've got one of their AR556 MPRs that runs like a Timex. And, I've long been a fan and owner of the 10/22.  But it doesn't sound like the SFAR is there at present.

I have a close personal friend at POF, pretty high up.  If you still are considering one of these guns, get ahold of me via Personal Message, and I'll see if I can put you in touch with him.  Lemme know. 

[MtnMike]

4 hours ago, 98Z5V said:

I have a close personal friend at POF, pretty high up.  If you still are considering one of these guns, get ahold of me via Personal Message, and I'll see if I can put you in touch with him.  Lemme know. 

I truly appreciate the offer.  Right now though there are no new toys on my horizon.  My house is almost 100 years old and I've got a mason coming tomorrow to look at probably taking down and rebuilding the chimney from the roof line up. Very high, very steep roof.  This ain't going to be cheap ... not a job anyone wants to do.

[unforgiven]

Old homes need work, bringing it to today's standards is a challenge. We started with a 1920's home knob and tube wiring, plaster walls, and galvanized plumbing. We picked one big project a year, took about 20 years to turn it around. Working and raising a family was tough. Made some money on it, a lot of sweat equity.

[MtnMike]

Sounds just like my old house.  Re-did the knob and tube about 20 years ago.  Iron pipes about 10 (still not 100% done with upstairs bath renovation - hard to get motivated we hardly use the upstairs since the girls got married). Working on kitchen floors now as well.  Chimney requires a pro.  Probably hire someone to convert the side screened in porch to heated square footage as well.  At his point on my life is easier to make money and hire someone than invest the sweat equity. I simply don't have the time to do it all anymore.  I'm too damn slow and meticulous when I'm working on my own stuff.  And, I'm still always working on something...

[unforgiven]

1 hour ago, MtnMike said:

Sounds just like my old house.  Re-did the knob and tube about 20 years ago.  Iron pipes about 10 (still not 100% done with upstairs bath renovation - hard to get motivated we hardly use the upstairs since the girls got married). Working on kitchen floors now as well.  Chimney requires a pro.  Probably hire someone to convert the side screened in porch to heated square footage as well.  At his point on my life is easier to make money and hire someone than invest the sweat equity. I simply don't have the time to do it all anymore.  I'm too damn slow and meticulous when I'm working on my own stuff.  And, I'm still always working on something...

One project at a time brother. I was 40 yrs younger when we did that remodel. This last one is probably my last remodel. It's a lot of work. Good luck brother 🍻🍻

[Rsquared]

That's the truth. I just signed for a serious water-proofing/foundation repair job for my place. Almost 35K, and that doesn't even count for some of the remediation work needed because of the old "early 60's" asbestos tile that I have in the basement. That'll probably be another 5 to 10K on top of that. But at least the water-proofing company will float (no pun intended) the cost since they do their own in-house financing.

It ain't easy being me ya know.

[MaineMan2]

Back to the video - did anyone notice the world’s weirdest hasty sling grip?  Am I the only person who questions “I never change out AR triggers”? 

[Alseides]

On 4/8/2023 at 1:14 AM, 98Z5V said:

This video SHOWS you right here, what Large Frame manufacturers have no fucking clue about, and why they make fucked up guns  -that WE have to deal with here, on this board, routinely.

Watch this:

 

Now, I'd like to discuss this -like I haven't, for YEARS here - and find out what's going on here?!  Apparently, MAC is fed up, and venting his frustration with all this.  With his vid.

We've SOLVED all these problems here, YEARS ago, if you've been paying attention for the long term.  BALANCE YOUR GAS SYSTEM AND RECOIL SYSTEM!!!  Eugene Stoner made the damn thing work, but the aftermarket STILL can't figure that out.  Balance the two systems...

At any rate - fire off your comments here, let it RIP!!!

 

I know this is a year later but I am new to the forum, bear with me.  I am baffled how he got his SFAR to work and perform well after all the videos and reviews I have read of people having issues with their SFAR.  Did he just get lucky or something?

[Belt Fed]

My SFAR works fine, i have not run a ton of ammo through it but it has functioned perfect and is pretty accurate. this was at 125 yards. the top ones was the barrel getting hot after several rounds, or shoot it coulda been me. lol

 

[Alseides]

On 11/2/2024 at 10:14 PM, Belt Fed said:

My SFAR works fine, i have not run a ton of ammo through it but it has functioned perfect and is pretty accurate. this was at 125 yards. the top ones was the barrel getting hot after several rounds, or shoot it coulda been me. lol

 

That is some great shooting!  Glad to hear your SFAR is running just fine.  I have a few questions if you don't mind: Is that a 20 inch barrel?  What ammo were you shooting?  How is the adjustable gas block working out?  Did you change out any parts?