New Sig P716 Pistol, yep Pistol!

[jtallen83]

Went to a gun show in Verona Mississippi this morning and got to handle a Sig P716 pistol. It had one of their "stabilizing braces" and a 12 inch barrel. If I could buy pistols in Mississippi I would have drained the checking account! here is a link with pictures of one for sale;

http://www.gunsamerica.com/902026426/SIG_SAUER_716_308_P716_12B_PSB_BLACK_7_62_PISTOL_W_STABILIZING_BRACE_12_BARREL_NOT_A_SBR_NEW_FOR_201.htm

 

The one at the show was a bit cheaper. Sig sure keeps these AR pistols on the down low when they introduce them!

[Robocop1051]

That's sadistically exciting. Nice find!

[Rsquared]

Whoa! Now we're talking. But......can't have the AR pistols in my F-ed up state.

[Robocop1051]

Whoa! Now we're talking. But......can't have the AR pistols in my F-ed up state.

Says the guy with the SBR...

[jtallen83]

Boy Americas gun laws make sense <lmao> You can't have an AR pistol in Maryland but own an SBR, I can have all the AR pistols I want in Iowa but can't own a SBR :rant2:

[98Z5V]

It's ALL legal in AZ, men.  I'm just sayin'... 

 

 

Consider that when you're finally fed up with the $hit in your state.  <thumbsup>

[Dane Armory]

And then you can shoot my toys and Tom's toys when your here !

Looks like your the one who are missing out !

You can get another job !

Sell the house MOVE Mother FLlCKERS before your door gets kicked in by jack booted thugs coming to take your guns !

[Dane Armory]

Back on topic ; Does that pistol stableizing brace come with a letter from the BATFE ? Seems like its in the gray area ? Like the shirt with a cup like receptical built into the shoulder area.

[shibiwan]

Back on topic ; Does that pistol stableizing brace come with a letter from the BATFE ? Seems like its in the gray area ? Like the shirt with a cup like receptical built into the shoulder area.

 

Mike,

 

Here's a free copy! :D :D

http://www.sigsauer.com/upFiles/ATF-Compliant-Letter.pdf

[98Z5V]

Here's the origins of what SIG has released - this is how it started:

 

http://www.ar15.com/forums/t_3_122/592191_New_Stabilizing_Brace_for_AR15_Pistol_SB15.html

[gunhand]

 I just picked up my P516, I haven't shot it yet, but will later this week. Depending on how I like it, a P716 to go with my 716 is a good possibility!!

[TheRenegadeMarine]

Time to start saving pennies!

[jtallen83]

First time out with the pistol in suppressed mode, makes it a whole different experience! Easy to understand why they make them with a suppressed mode built in. Took longer to cool down than it did to shoot the 60 rounds, pure enjoyment

[sketch]

Sweet! I need to mod my 300 pistol to mount the can .... do you get any poi shift with your can?

[jtallen83]

Just now, sketch said:

.. do you get any poi shift with your can?

Not that I've noticed. On this "pistol" I'm running an Aimpoint and a 3x magnifier, with my astigmatism I don't shoot tight enough groups to tell but it still whacks the 12 inch steel at 100 yards as fast as I pull the trigger. If it changed on my Matrix build then it wasn't more than an inch but then that is a pretty stiff 16 inch barrel. Still need to get my AR-10 set up for suppressor use so we'll see if the longer 20 inch barrel leads to a bigger shift.

[jtallen83]

The P716 was a big disappointment today! After another 20 rounds it started to act under-gassed, short stroking, no bolt lock back, etc. Turned up the gas and it ran good for maybe 20 rounds and started acting up again. It especially disliked M118LR, I'm thinking it is a slower burning powder that has a pressure curve not suited for such a short barrel....maybe. The crux of the problem though is the extra gunk a suppressor deposits in the gas system. It may be cleaner in the chamber but the gas piston started forming a coal mine! So much for piston guns being more reliable, the matrix DI gun has three times plus this many rounds and is still trucking along with the suppressor and no cleaning. The 300 BO is hitting 400 rounds suppressed, no cleaning, and not missing a beat. The Sig is looking pretty wimpy! 

[survivalshop]

18 minutes ago, jtallen83 said:

The P716 was a big disappointment today! After another 20 rounds it started to act under-gassed, short stroking, no bolt lock back, etc. Turned up the gas and it ran good for maybe 20 rounds and started acting up again. It especially disliked M118LR, I'm thinking it is a slower burning powder that has a pressure curve not suited for such a short barrel....maybe. The crux of the problem though is the extra gunk a suppressor deposits in the gas system. It may be cleaner in the chamber but the gas piston started forming a coal mine! So much for piston guns being more reliable, the matrix DI gun has three times plus this many rounds and is still trucking along with the suppressor and no cleaning. The 300 BO is hitting 400 rounds suppressed, no cleaning, and not missing a beat. The Sig is looking pretty wimpy! 

  Hard to compare different systems , in different rifles . Have brought this up to Sig Sauer , new rifle , i think they want to make it work to spec's , 20 rds. & its that dirty ? Unburnt , dirty Powder sounds like a possibility , find the right ammo , thats faster & cleaner burning , as you have hinted at & may be all the rifle needs . 

Whats the round count ?

[jtallen83]

Round count on the rifle is about 500 or so, maybe a bit more. It's been back to Sig a few times already so I kinda lost track with all the test runs. It has been about 100 rounds since a cleaning. It's easy for me to compare systems, what can I do with each, I'm finding I can't rely on the 716. I'm not one to just accept a rifle that is picky on ammo, I want a weapon to run with whatever I feed it and I want it to keep running even when I neglect it some. Sig's motto was always "To hell and back reliability", this thing only goes to the range and back and can't maintain reliability!

I've got it tore down on the bench now, I'll clean it up good and give it another round. If I get the same results then it may just be going on the block and I'll build a 308 pistol that I can work on.

[98Z5V]

Hit that thing with the lube, Jim!!!   See if it behaves different.  Add just a little, and see if you can keep it running - hit that piston and the "cylinder" for it.  It might improve, at least for a few more rounds... 

[ChaoticReason]

This may be way off, I'm still learning, but might the buffer and spring be wrong or gumming up and not letting it cycle right? I read all of this thread and the one of when you just got it, and I saw where you said there was a coal mine in the piston system, but it's just not quite adding up to me. 

 I'm guessing when Sig tested it, it was sitting in their shop for awhile, nice and warm. I know that the temps you were shooting in were well within tolerances, but the short stroking and the FTEs, I don't know, that's what pops into my head. I have only ever shot a DI rifle, so I'm just guessing, but I thought I would run it by you. 

 I don't have a Sig rifle, just a P320, and that thing has been great. It does take whatever I give it, at least for the 800 or so rounds I've put through it so far. But I was hoping to get either a MCX SBR or a PMCX PSB at some point down the road. 

[survivalshop]

11 hours ago, jtallen83 said:

Round count on the rifle is about 500 or so, maybe a bit more. It's been back to Sig a few times already so I kinda lost track with all the test runs. It has been about 100 rounds since a cleaning. It's easy for me to compare systems, what can I do with each, I'm finding I can't rely on the 716. I'm not one to just accept a rifle that is picky on ammo, I want a weapon to run with whatever I feed it and I want it to keep running even when I neglect it some. Sig's motto was always "To hell and back reliability", this thing only goes to the range and back and can't maintain reliability!

I've got it tore down on the bench now, I'll clean it up good and give it another round. If I get the same results then it may just be going on the block and I'll build a 308 pistol that I can work on.

 How does it do with out a Suppressor on ? 

 As far as comparing , the rifles you are comparing , is the same ammo being used in all of them ? Same Suppressor ? Same Barrel length ? We already know they have different Gas Systems .

 Sig should make it right , even if you have to send your Ammo lot & the Suppressor with it to them for evaluation , some paper work involved with the Suppressor , but if you like the rifle & plan on keeping it , its a worth while investment in time .  

[ChaoticReason]

^^^ I second that. 

[jtallen83]

Barrel lengths are different but ammo and suppressor are the same. It was running good after the last trip into Sig without a suppressor, first 80 rounds with suppressor did fine then it went downhill, the 10 rounds of MK319 ran fine and that makes sense being designed for SBR's. It would do fine for a few rounds of M80 every time I turned up the gas but no way should I be running suppressed on the adverse setting! As far as comparing rifles goes the only real comparison that is important to me is reliability. They are all a bit different and meant to fill different roles. The Sig is acting like it is auditioning for the role of picky bitch, I wrote that part out so those qualities are not needed. I just got her back together after a very thorough cleaning so sometime in the next couple days I will give her another go. The wear on the carrier is pretty heavy in my opinion but it is the only piston gun I have so nothing else to compare that to. If it fails again I will give Sig a call....again. At the same time I'm going to take it to the LGS and see what the trade value is on it, they are all Sig fans, love my Sig 9mm's but I'm not getting that warm fuzzy feeling from this 716.

[unforgiven]

That is a badass setup brother Jim.

[jtallen83]

Ran 50 rounds this morning after cleaning and using the lube, no issues. Shot M118LR, MK319, Magtech M80 ball, Radway M80 ball, and Pakistani ball. Hope to get another 50-60 rounds down the pipe before I head back to work Tuesday. I've decided if I can get 200 rounds suppressed without cleaning I'll keep it.