I sense a recall coming

[DNP]

[confused]

[survivalshop]

3 hours ago, blue109 said:

 

    WTF do they have Body Armor on for ?      Afraid of the primer flash ?  Maybe the Pistol will blow up . The safety glasses I can see using , good idea .

     I'm going to say it again , I wasn't there when they purchased the Pistol or what preps they did to do this video , this issue may be with certain Pistols , maybe a component failure when dropped like that , I want to see more Striker fired Pistols tested in this exact same manner . This could be a flaw in all Striker fired Pistols , no matter what Safeties it has . Its just strange they come up with this after the Pistol won the Militaries contract .

  I would like to know if its dropping the Striker or forward momentum is over coming the spring pressure on the Striker , like I said , I didn't have a primed case in the Chamber  when I dropped mine . My Pistol was still cocked & pulling the Trigger dropped the Striker , at least it felt like it & sounded like it .

[blue109]

 there is a slow motion video that shows the trigger moving backwards all the way by itself from the momentum of the drop.  the gun is functioning correctly, it's just doing so without a finger on the trigger. 

 

I have no dog in this fight as I neither like nor dislike sig..... I just love seeing people get crabby on the internet 

[Robocop1051]

4 hours ago, blue109 said:

I have no dog in this fight as I neither like nor dislike sig..... I just love seeing people get crabby on the internet 

Glock fanboys are jerking off to the point of dehydration over this. 

[survivalshop]

 

  I'm not crabby , I'm Pissed off !  I buy a Sig because they are highly recommended , ask which should I get , the P320 seems to be the right choice  , I get it & then after showing it off , someone posts this video & shitstorm about it . Where was all this before I purchased one , its like it all waited till I had one in my hands . 

  I'm not worried , Sig will repair it , if needed & my testing on my particular Pistol shows me I'm confident in using it as a carry gun , I have never had to beat my pistol up, to see if it was safe , never !  Have any of you ?

[Robocop1051]

For what it's worth. The way I understand it, the mighty 1911 series 70 failed several drop tests, from numerous angles. That's one of the reasons California doesn't sell it. Hence the reason the series 80 came out with the added firing pin safety.... I'll bet that never stopped you from carrying a 1911 though. 

[blue109]

To be fair..the first reports sounded like BS. I even made that comment about TFB being fake news and having to retract the article about TX PD taking 320s off the duty list. The videos didnt start to appear until after your show and tell post so it was just bad timing. 

 

I still think its a cool gun and certainly wouldnt mind having one. It will get fixed. The world is watching now so they can afford not to.

[Robocop1051]

 I will definitely own one when the X5 series is available. I'm not as interested in the X5 upper as I am in the X5 grip. 

I still fully intend to make one in aluminum too!

[survivalshop]

5 hours ago, blue109 said:

To be fair..the first reports sounded like BS. I even made that comment about TFB being fake news and having to retract the article about TX PD taking 320s off the duty list. The videos didnt start to appear until after your show and tell post so it was just bad timing. 

 

I still think its a cool gun and certainly wouldnt mind having one. It will get fixed. The world is watching now so they can afford not to.

  What great timing for me   

 

6 hours ago, Robocop1051 said:

For what it's worth. The way I understand it, the mighty 1911 series 70 failed several drop tests, from numerous angles. That's one of the reasons California doesn't sell it. Hence the reason the series 80 came out with the added firing pin safety.... I'll bet that never stopped you from carrying a 1911 though. 

     Ya , but it seemed to pass the ultimate drop test , how many wars, has that Pistol fought in & men still want to use them for personal defense , that says something about the Firearm in general .

  

[FreQRiDeR]

Ouch! Mil should gave gone with the Berettas. I dropped my sidearm the other day on some rocks! Glad it was a Beretta!

[FreQRiDeR]

That's what lanyards are for! ;)

[survivalshop]

  Here the latest from some who met with Sig .

http://soldiersystems.net/2017/08/08/sig-sauer-acknowledges-p320-trigger-issues-with-30deg-drop-m17-mhs-unaffected-announces-voluntary-p320-upgrade/

[blue109]

Lol. Sig says making a gun completely drop safe makes it more dangerous? 

[FreQRiDeR]

Sig issues a quick fix!

[blue109]

[98Z5V]

On 8/10/2017 at 9:03 AM, shepp said:

My question and it maybe a dumb one 

 

but

 

1)  do you think this happened cuz they were in a rush to put a gun in the US military's hands? 

 

2)  But to opose that question, how different is this gun than their others? Is it that big of a difference in design than their others? Just asking for a friend

1)  YES

2) There are zero user-safeties on this pistol. There's no trigger safety, there's no grip safety, there's no thumb safety.  That's the difference between it and other pistols...

The physical weight of that trigger assembly is causing this malfunction.  Not the pull weight - how much that trigger weighs.  Mass in motion...  Move to a lighter trigger, and it's solved, when dropped in this manner - according to the tests thus far.

Edited August 12, 2017 by 98Z5V

[shepp]

31 minutes ago, 98Z5V said:

1)  YES

2) There are zero user-safeties on this pistol. There's no trigger safety, there's no grip safety, there's no thumb safety.  That's the difference between it and other pistols...

The physical weight of that trigger assembly is causing this malfunction.  Not the pull weight - how much that trigger weighs.  Mass in motion...  Move to a lighter trigger, and it's solved, when dropped in this manner - according to the tests thus far.

Ahhhhhhh ok yea thanks! That seems silly I saw robo comment somthing about a safety I didn't think it was safetliless tho that's dumb! 

[Robocop1051]

36 minutes ago, shepp said:

Ahhhhhhh ok yea thanks! That seems silly I saw robo comment somthing about a safety I didn't think it was safetliless tho that's dumb! 

The P320 has no user safety. The military M17 DOES have a thumb safety, similar to a 1911. 

The original concept of the P320 had a Glock-style trigger safety. This concept was ditched for the production design. 

It looks like the Apex style, and a skeletonized style, trigger are going to be the concepts they go with now. 

Im personally not a fan of having ANY safety on a dedicated combat firearm. The only "safe" weapon is an open/unloaded weapon. I carried a P226 and P220 on duty for over 13 years for this very reason. 

[edgecrusher]

54 minutes ago, Robocop1051 said:

 

Im personally not a fan of having ANY safety on a dedicated combat firearm. The only "safe" weapon is an open/unloaded weapon. I carried a P226 and P220 on duty for over 13 years for this very reason. 

Yup, if I draw my weapon I do not want anything interfering with rapid dispersal of lead on target. No fumbling to take off a safety

[Rsquared]

Now, before we start $hitting all over Sig about the 320's. Let's not forget about how Beretta had issues right after they fielded their M9's to the Military back in the 80's. Let's not forget the "slide" issues that popped up all over the place. Testing showed that the "open slide" style was breaking under heavy wear from the side rails cracking. Which, turned out to be not a problem as Beretta worked through it. Thus.....the modern (standard) M9 sidearm. I'm generalizing. I don't pretend to be an expert.

I'm not defending Sig, Just saying.

 

 

[jtallen83]

On 8/10/2017 at 0:03 PM, shepp said:

do you think this happened cuz they were in a rush to put a gun in the US military's hands? 

No, the 320 was introduced January 15, 2014, before the military contract competition was announced in september 2015. It is just a culture thing with Sig, they make some fantastic weapons but they tend to rush everything to market then make adjustments from there. I think they have discovered most of what they sell only ever sees a few dozen rounds and spends its life in a safe so they will not have to fix those.

[survivalshop]

4 hours ago, jtallen83 said:

No, the 320 was introduced January 15, 2014, before the military contract competition was announced in september 2015. It is just a culture thing with Sig, they make some fantastic weapons but they tend to rush everything to market then make adjustments from there. I think they have discovered most of what they sell only ever sees a few dozen rounds and spends its life in a safe so they will not have to fix those.

  Do you really believe that last statement ? 

  Its not just the weight of said components , its also a very good light trigger , that helps in this drop discharge & many others , that go back many years with altered Triggers  . This Pistol has a great Trigger pull , even better since I lubed her up with 98 Special . ( No I have not fired it yet , waiting for Mondays Press release , though the Soldiers system link summed it up )

  I still think that someone was working over time to make this Pistol fail & make it look bad , 500K firearms in service & a couple AD 's , I would be willing to bet that you could force a AD on any striker fired Pistol . Unless you block that Striker from even coming in contact with a Primer , it a potential AD , of course you can carry it with an empty Chamber & this will not be an issue with any Pistol .

14 hours ago, blue109 said:

Lol. Sig says making a gun completely drop safe makes it more dangerous? 

  In some ways thats an accurate statement if your life depended on it . As per the two LEO 's that had comments above .

[Robocop1051]

I still stand behind Sig on their pistols. Just wish they invested as much on their 45's as they do their smaller formats.

[jtallen83]

1 hour ago, survivalshop said:

  Do you really believe that last statement ? 

Yes, yes I do. After having near a dozen interactions with Sig customer service personally and spending several years on a Sig forum reading about hundreds of other interactions and the bullschit statments people are given I have arrived at this conclusion. Have I heard or read this from any Sig exec's, no, but this is a regular occurrence with Sig. If they have not determined that an early release of a faulty weapon is still more profitable than a delay for in-depth testing then I am at a loss as to why they would repeat this over and over. The 320 is not an isolated issue for them it is part of a pattern they have established. P938, for over two years people are told their grip is causing the issue, the trigger is designed to be heavy, your weapon is in spec, then quietly they issue a new modified MSH and mag catch. MCX, hammers are getting broken, gouging on the inside of the receiver, your weapon is in spec, expect some normal wear, then quietly they issue a voluntary recall for the carriage assembly and triggers. 227 TacOps, it is an ammo issue, you are not holding the weapon properly, your weapon is in spec.....quietly they exchange modified magazines to those that complain. I could keep going. 

They seem to always fix the issue but at the cost of customers time, ammo, and frustration. Don't get me wrong, I will never part with my MK25's or PM400, simply love the problem free performance, but I will never buy a new model from Sig that has not been on the market for 5 plus years and has a clean track record, I don't like beta testing their 716 for them and will not fall for it again.