98Z5V Posted March 25, 2019 Report Share Posted March 25, 2019 Got out there with GP John this morning. Set the usual suspects out there, the 500 and 845. Put two more out there, longer. Official measured distances today were 502 yards, 851 yards, 988 yards, and 1,081 yards. I took the .260, and he took his 6.5 Creedmoor. We had a paper zero target at 100 so he could dial his scope in, then we got after it. Here's an overall shot of the whole area: I poked the 500 initially,to make sure my scope was on, then GP John just punished that thing. We didn't paint any of the targets when we put them out there. The one at 988 was painted previously, and not shot, so it was the only clean target that went up. Here's the 851 for the day: All new hits on it are circled in red: This is the 988 - it's the one that went up clean. As soon as I got two hits on it, I moved to the 1,081... THIS ONE was fun!!! 1,081 was previously shot, and not painted. New hits are circled in yellow. This dope chart I made for the .260 is on the money! It's RIGHT on! Made this up with JBM Ballistics, printed it, laminated it, and it stays in the chest rig. Overall, a very good day... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
98Z5V Posted March 25, 2019 Author Report Share Posted March 25, 2019 (edited) Drone guy... didn't come out today. We had him on yesterday, but he didn't make it out. The need for a drone operator was because of a phone call last week between GP John and his Rep at Athlon Optics - John told him what we were doing during the Spring Shoot, and he said, "You guys get me a video, and I'll get it uploaded to our website!" WooHoo! It was on! Then, no drone operator... We'll get it done, I just don't know when. John got some really good pics, and he's supposed to get them to me - when I get those, I'll put them in this thread. Edited March 25, 2019 by 98Z5V Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Belt Fed Posted March 25, 2019 Report Share Posted March 25, 2019 Looking forward to seeing them, good shootin. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Armed Eye Doc Posted March 25, 2019 Report Share Posted March 25, 2019 Great shooting Tom!!! That looks like a great time. I was looking forward to the video. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sisco Posted March 25, 2019 Report Share Posted March 25, 2019 That chart is gold. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
unforgiven Posted March 25, 2019 Report Share Posted March 25, 2019 Wow that's awesome 👍 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lonewolf McQuade Posted March 25, 2019 Report Share Posted March 25, 2019 Great shooting! I'm dieing to get out myself. Bitch mother nature is is being defiant Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Armed Eye Doc Posted March 26, 2019 Report Share Posted March 26, 2019 2 hours ago, Lonewolf McQuade said: Great shooting! I'm dieing to get out myself. Bitch mother nature is is being defiant That damn groundhog lied. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lane Posted March 26, 2019 Report Share Posted March 26, 2019 21 hours ago, 98Z5V said: THIS ONE was fun!!! 1,081 was previously shot, and not painted. New hits are circled in yellow. This is a fun one; any idea what the rough order of progression was? Were the hits total scatter (wind, etc.), or a more calculated spiral, or; were you trying to correct each shot based on the last? How many more weeks until spring? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lonewolf McQuade Posted March 26, 2019 Report Share Posted March 26, 2019 33 minutes ago, Armed Eye Doc said: That damn groundhog lied. Yeah, me & a buddy are designing an assassination plot to take out Punxsutawney Phil. Lieing fuc%ing little rodent!!!! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
98Z5V Posted March 26, 2019 Author Report Share Posted March 26, 2019 2 hours ago, Lonewolf McQuade said: Great shooting! I'm dieing to get out myself. Bitch mother nature is is being defiant I got lucky... Normally, I get skeered or nervous and close my eyes then just start jerking the trigger... Shiit panned out for me this time... 15 minutes ago, Armed Eye Doc said: That damn groundhog lied. Not down down here, brother! He saw no snow in our future, and I'm good now! Maybe we need you to set that groundhog up with some corrective lenses... 8 minutes ago, Lane said: This is a fun one; any idea what the rough order of progression was? Were the hits total scatter (wind, etc.), or a more calculated spiral, or; were you trying to correct each shot based on the last? How many more weeks until spring? That was damn near 1,100 yards, brother. With a changing wind, in the desert. That's about as far as I can say for a science experiment. I had to read wind at distance, between the target, and at the shooting point, dial my drop, and apply the proper shooting fundamentals - all while hoping I didn't screw something up in there. If the wind even changed a little bit, it affected the impact on target. At that distance, going from a 4.0mph wind to a 4.5mph wind will change the impact point. My drop was dead-on, though, at 10.0 mils for 1,100 yards. Elevation-wise, I was there as soon as I dialed it - I had to deal with the wind. It was pretty consistent at 5mph, mainly from the right. At times, on the 850, it was a wind from the LEFT. Crazy. I'd go from a half mil right-edge hold on the target, to a 1.0 mil left hold. There were times when I saw mirage a little more than 5mph, maybe 7. Overall, it stayed the same - but when it changed on you, you were suddenly off-target, re-reading wind, and correcting. Last weekend during the Spring Shoot, we were battling 8mph winds with gust to 20mph, and swirling... It sucked! The best thing about this gun - parts selection. I can shoot, and watch the impacts on target through the scope. When I got lucky and hit it... The optic, brake, barrel, trigger, recoil system - all work great together. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lane Posted March 26, 2019 Report Share Posted March 26, 2019 25 minutes ago, 98Z5V said: you were suddenly off-target, re-reading wind, and correcting. I saw a nice slope; up into the right shoulder on the target, and then one in the eye... I just wanted to be sure about the math here. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
edgecrusher Posted March 26, 2019 Report Share Posted March 26, 2019 1 hour ago, Lane said: This is a fun one; any idea what the rough order of progression was? Were the hits total scatter (wind, etc.), or a more calculated spiral, or; were you trying to correct each shot based on the last? How many more weeks until spring? If you haven’t shot distance yet, greater than 500, it’s not an exact application of math. Wind is a bitch and you can have several varying cross winds. Not to mention your fundamentals matter so much more. Throw a shot and your missing by feet. If the steel rings it don’t matter where..... especially when you are not shooting off s bench with a bench gun. Field shooting puts different stress on you Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
edgecrusher Posted March 26, 2019 Report Share Posted March 26, 2019 3 minutes ago, Lane said: I saw a nice slope; up into the right shoulder on the target, and then one in the eye... I just wanted to be sure about the math here. See above. Math is great but only half the equation. Especially at 1100 yds. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lane Posted March 26, 2019 Report Share Posted March 26, 2019 The math still applies; it's the external ballistics I was asking about. How much of a fight was it for him to hit the 1,100 yards? The "scatter" plot on the target was pretty well defined; which is why I was so intrigued. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
edgecrusher Posted March 26, 2019 Report Share Posted March 26, 2019 2 minutes ago, Lane said: The math still applies; it's the external ballistics I was asking about. How much of a fight was it for him to hit the 1,100 yards? The "scatter" plot on the target was pretty well defined; which is why I was so intrigued. I understand what you’re trying to say but I don’t think you understand my point. It’s stupid hard to hit that mark. MOA is over 10”. If he hits the target in the corners it’s still a 2.5 MOA spread. Human error can’t be calculated into an equation but is 50% or more of a determining factor. The .260 offers a better chance than say a 6.5 creed or certainly.308 but you’re really needing .300 win mag or up if the conditions are as challenging as he stated to cancel some of that effect out. Out of curiosity what is the furthest you have shot? Or shoot on a regular basis? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
98Z5V Posted March 26, 2019 Author Report Share Posted March 26, 2019 (edited) t 19 minutes ago, Lane said: I saw a nice slope; up into the right shoulder on the target, and then one in the eye... I just wanted to be sure about the math here. They were in target, but at different times. I'd take 5 shots at that 1,100, then move to the 850 for 5 more - then spot GP John on the 500, then spot again at 1,000 for him. It wasn't consistent shot after shot on that. We had the targets out there, and we moved to each, alot. Everytime you went back to one, it was slightly different, so you had to start the process all over again. Settle, set NPOA, confirm NPOA, read wind, dial, confirm level, reacquire... Fire. As soon as you saw an impact or a dirt burst, you knew what was up - second shot was usually right on, and you stayed on unless you rushed the next shot, or something changed. 17 minutes ago, edgecrusher said: If you haven’t shot distance yet, greater than 500, it’s not an exact application of math. Wind is a bitch and you can have several varying cross winds. Not to mention your fundamentals matter so much more. Throw a shot and your missing by feet. If the steel rings it don’t matter where..... especially when you are not shooting off s bench with a bench gun. Field shooting puts different stress on you ^^^ There's truth in this one. 16 minutes ago, edgecrusher said: See above. Math is great but only half the equation. Especially at 1100 yds. It applies at 600 yards on a .308 Winchester cartridge. Below that distance, wind really won't affect you too much, unless you're shooting in a hurricane, or you're only aiming for the Xs. Beyond 600, it makes a big difference, and that only increases with more distance. On the 500, if you know your drop, you're gonna hit it, wind be damned. At the 850, you definitely have to account for it or you will NOT get on target. The further you go, you only hope for a calm day, no wind. If there's wind, you suck it up. You can read it accurately (enough), or not. I'd rather shoot a 10mph full-value wind at 850 than a 3~5mph variable wind at 1k. For wind practice, on the cheap - if you can shoot a .22LR at 200 yards, and account for the wind, and make hits - that's about the same as shooting .308 Winchester at 600 yards - as far as wind goes. If you can apply that at 200 on .22 - you can do it at 600 with .308. Edited March 26, 2019 by 98Z5V Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
98Z5V Posted March 26, 2019 Author Report Share Posted March 26, 2019 4 minutes ago, edgecrusher said: The .260 offers a better chance than say a 6.5 creed or certainly.308 but you’re really needing .300 win mag or up if the conditions are as challenging as he stated to cancel some of that effect out. Interesting, that you brought it up. GP Johns 6.5 Creed. I had my dope on the .260. I asked him to get me his load info before the shoot. He didn't, and I didn't bug him. He was busy running the shop, and mounting and leveling his scope on Saturday. So, okay... I didn't make an initial dope chart for him. The .260 and 6.5C are close, almost enough to be ballistic twins, some say - but that didn't work out, on Sunday. I was 6.5 mils of drop on the 850. He was another 2.0 mils (8.5 mils) of drop on the 850. He was also shooting 140gr factory loads - I'm shooting 147gr hands loads jamming 2650fps. If was different for both of us. Once I confirmed he was 2.0 mils different on the 850, I guess-timated for him on the 1k and 1100, adding 2-ish mils to my drop info, and spotting for him. He got on - he hit them, too. He logged his hits, and drop info, but we need to confirm that on a no-wind day to rely on it. Dial-Fire-Bang. 1 MOA at 1,100 would be 11.517". That's an 18" wide target, 26" tall. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
edgecrusher Posted March 26, 2019 Report Share Posted March 26, 2019 I took a class on reading wind as mirage. It was taught by a gorilla and a redneck. Funny thing was I remember it well and can still judge wind through the scope! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
edgecrusher Posted March 26, 2019 Report Share Posted March 26, 2019 2 minutes ago, 98Z5V said: 1 MOA at 1,100 would be 11.517". That's an 18" wide target, 26" tall. Beer makes me smarterer Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
98Z5V Posted March 26, 2019 Author Report Share Posted March 26, 2019 9 minutes ago, edgecrusher said: I took a class on reading wind as mirage. It was taught by a gorilla and a redneck. Funny thing was I remember it well and can still judge wind through the scope! Your instructors might have sucked!... This .260 is solidified as one of my primary "distance guns" now. It's proven itself. I knew it was going to happen, anyway, and I set it up that way. I now have three primary "distance guns," with this one. Here they are, top to bottom, .260 Rem AR, Rem 700 AAC-SD (20" heavy barrel, 1:10" twist, and a bunch of other stuff) and the Rem 700 .300 Win Mag (26" heavy barrel, and bone stock besides glass). <<< That thing is gonna be changing, too. It needs a Timney trigger and a detachable mag setup - but I'm not changing the Bell & Carlson M40 stock. Here's the bitches: Those are all set up for me. Those two 700s have identical eye relief in the scopes, and the .308 is spaced on the stock for an identical length of pull for me. From the eyepiece back to the end of the buttstock, they're twins. The .260 has the scope set a little further back on it, because it's an AR, but the length of pull is set further back on the stock - LOP to eyepiece is the same on all three. What else is similar on those three guns?... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
98Z5V Posted March 26, 2019 Author Report Share Posted March 26, 2019 (edited) Scope levels. You cannot fuk that up at distance. Flat-range distance shooters have an advantage, because target frames are square. You can square up your reticle with the target frame. That's not happening, out in the dirt. You need to have the scope leveled to the rifle, and you need a reference to level the gun - out in the dirt. You can get by at 800 yards-ish. Beyond that, if you're looking at a cactus as a vertical reference point to level your scope - that bastard is probably growing up crooked. And, you'll miss. You cant that rifle off-vertical by even a couple degrees, and you'll see a dirt-clod hop up beside your target, instead of see it swing (and you'll see it swing at 800 well before you'll hear the hit). At 1k and 1100, we couldn't hear the hits, not with earplugs in - we had to go by whether it was swinging or not. If you aren't level, you will probably miss. Edited March 26, 2019 by 98Z5V Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Matt.Cross Posted March 26, 2019 Report Share Posted March 26, 2019 11 minutes ago, 98Z5V said: At 1k and 1100, we couldn't hear the hits, not with earplugs in - we had to go by whether it was swinging or not. If you aren't level, you will probably miss. Add that to the list of reasons you need to get into the suppressor game. That list is now a volume thicker than the unabridged large print version of War & Peace. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
98Z5V Posted March 26, 2019 Author Report Share Posted March 26, 2019 I knew you'd find an angle, inside this discussion!... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Matt.Cross Posted March 26, 2019 Report Share Posted March 26, 2019 1 minute ago, 98Z5V said: I knew you'd find an angle, inside this discussion!... As soon as you take care of what needs to be done, I'll find something else to nag you about sweetie... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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