Asetechrail Posted December 21, 2021 Report Share Posted December 21, 2021 20 inch rifle length gas system. The drill fits but not tight. I would guess it’s closer to .094/.095. I think this is the only thing they got right on my PA10 Gen 3. They had the 7.000 tube with the wrong spring an light buffer. Also had a too short 15.25 inch gas tube. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
98Z5V Posted December 21, 2021 Report Share Posted December 21, 2021 5 minutes ago, Asetechrail said: 20 inch rifle length gas system. The drill fits but not tight. I would guess it’s closer to .094/.095. I think this is the only thing they got right on my PA10 Gen 3. They had the 7.000 tube with the wrong spring an light buffer. Also had a too short 15.25 inch gas tube. ^^^ Bare minimum, right there, with the spread being 0.093"~0.096". for a 20" rifle gas with a 0.750" journal size. But at least they got that one right to the functional area. Maybe they're learning, something. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DNP Posted December 21, 2021 Report Share Posted December 21, 2021 Like they haven’t read a thread or two on this forum. They get around to putting the rest together right and they have a real nice, functioning, reasonably priced rifle that doesn’t get a bunch of callbacks….and actually makes a good name for the company. But hey, who in their right mind would want all that? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Matt.Cross Posted December 21, 2021 Report Share Posted December 21, 2021 Did I mention I took a personal tour of DC Machine here a few weeks ago, and spoke to the main armorer/tooling manager? I must've forgotten... Yup, I sure did. I might've mentioned my experience as a Tool & Die Maker, and that I knew the magical gas port size for making this platform run. Might have. We may never know. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
98Z5V Posted December 21, 2021 Report Share Posted December 21, 2021 3 minutes ago, Matt.Cross said: Did I mention I took a personal tour of DC Machine here a few weeks ago, and spoke to the main armorer/tooling manager? I must've forgotten... Yup, I sure did. I might've mentioned my experience as a Tool & Die Maker, and that I knew the magical gas port size for making this platform run. Might have. We may never know. Someone needs to skool those fuckers, hard. Because DC Machime - the barrel makers for PSA - are OWNED by PSA... Someone needs to make those fuckers smart - because PSA doesn't listen to feedback. PSA gives zero shiits about customer feedback. Over YEARS of information. If you have a hand in that, Matt - fix them. Because they're tragically fucked up. Fix their ceahp-as$ recoil systems, too. You HAVE TO SPEND MONEY TO MAKE MONEY. "Cheap" doesn't mean "Reliable." PSA doesn't get that. Never did, and doubt they ever will. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Matt.Cross Posted December 21, 2021 Report Share Posted December 21, 2021 On 12/21/2021 at 12:18 AM, 98Z5V said: Someone needs to skool those fuckers, hard. Because DC Machime - the barrel makers for PSA - are OWNED by PSA... Someone needs to make those fuckers smart - because PSA doesn't listen to feedback. PSA gives zero shiits about customer feedback. Over YEARS of information. If you have a hand in that, Matt - fix them. Because they're tragically fucked up. Fix their ceahp-as$ recoil systems, too. You HAVE TO SPEND MONEY TO MAKE MONEY. "Cheap" doesn't mean "Reliable." PSA doesn't get that. Never did, and doubt they ever will. Truth be told, they'll be ruined by their bean counters. They aren't unaware of what it would take. The simple fact is, they're selling heavier buffers and better springs in sufficient volume to make money after they've sold a defective product. As long as they're making money off both the problem and the fix, the bean counters will leave the spec in place. DC Machine knows what it takes to fix the platform. PSA owns and specifies the platform. PSAs decisions aren't based on the fact that they don't know, nor are the manufacturers decisions based on the fact that they don't know. DC Machine sells parts to PSA whether or no not PSA has them well specified, and therein is the issue. The blame lies completely with PSA in my book, they know the issue and how to fix the spec and have done neither based on the almighty dollar. DC Machine can't be blamed for supplying their primary customer with precisely what they're asking for, that's what any respectable machine shop would do. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
98Z5V Posted December 21, 2021 Report Share Posted December 21, 2021 Absolutely. You can't blame the gas port diameter - or the gas port location -of the barrel that you're producing... On the specs that the COMPANY THAT BOUGHT YOU... ...told you to do... DC Machine can make a good barrel. They just need to do it outside of what PSA tells them to do. Kinda HARD to do that, though, when PSA owns your barrel-making company... The only reason any PSA barrels have any problems is because PSA is telling DC Machine the specs to machine them to. It's not because DC Machine sucks. PSA just doesn't know what the fuk they're doing... They own the company (DC Machine), so they don't care who's reputation they're dragging down... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Matt.Cross Posted December 21, 2021 Report Share Posted December 21, 2021 On 12/21/2021 at 1:30 AM, 98Z5V said: Absolutely. You can't blame the gas port diameter - or the gas port location -of the barrel that you're producing... On the specs that the COMPANY THAT BOUGHT YOU... ...told you to do... DC Machine can make a good barrel. They just need to do it outside of what PSA tells them to do. Kinda HARD to do that, though, when PSA owns your barrel-making company... The only reason any PSA barrels have any problems is because PSA is telling DC Machine the specs to machine them to. It's not because DC Machine sucks. PSA just doesn't know what the fuk they're doing... They own the company (DC Machine), so they don't care who's reputation they're dragging down... The good news is that when PSAs bean counters ultimately send PSA belly up, whoever buys PSA and DC by extension, will have a ready-made company that can generate a top-tier product immediately. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
98Z5V Posted December 21, 2021 Report Share Posted December 21, 2021 (edited) I don't think they're going under anytime soon, but if they do, they TAKE OUT alot of the market... Because... Here's the PSA piece of the Remington Bust-Up... JJE Capital Holdings LLC acquires DPMS, H&R, Stormlake, AAC and Parker brands JJE Capital Holdings IS PSA... Edited December 21, 2021 by 98Z5V Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
98Z5V Posted December 21, 2021 Report Share Posted December 21, 2021 (edited) Remington 870 shotguns?... yeah, that's PSA now. All your AAC suppressors? PSA owns them now. Let's just hope that PSA doesn't fuk up the warranty on AAC suppressors, and make it like their own PSA PA-10 "lifetime warranties..." Edited December 21, 2021 by 98Z5V Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Matt.Cross Posted December 21, 2021 Report Share Posted December 21, 2021 On 12/21/2021 at 1:49 AM, 98Z5V said: JJE Capital Holdings IS PSA... That's right, and their bean counters aren't discerning about using the same kind of policies across all their child companies. Let's just hope that when they dissolve, all those child companies are robust enough to become their own entities again. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jtallen83 Posted December 21, 2021 Report Share Posted December 21, 2021 6 hours ago, 98Z5V said: Let's just hope that PSA doesn't fuk up the warranty on AAC suppressors I just wish they would put out some 51T's so I can use my stuff on more rifles. Used ones with worn off teeth are getting well past $100 and some models go past $300 regularly on ebay. I bought the last one my LGS could get near two years ago now and he hasn't been able to get them since. At one point there were some knock offs for $125 but I won't risk the cans, I've already used one free "worn latch" fix, can't say enough good about the customer service pre-PSA, my thought was get the AAC's customer service guy over to headquarters now PSA, he knows his schit! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mrmackc Posted December 21, 2021 Report Share Posted December 21, 2021 On 8/3/2019 at 12:25 AM, 98Z5V said: That would make a "reliable rifle for almost any ammunition type," yes. However, it seems like they're trying to use the "Race Gun" approach and apply it to budget guns, in order to save a few bucks here and there. It'll never work... It's not a Race Gun... which would only shoot one type of hand-loaded ammo in the first place, for competition only... BUT THEN, PSA couldn't make their $HIT WAD POS STUFF without having to worry about someone saying "Hey this PSA looks like an AMALITE or DPMS clone!" , and there goes their marketing strategy , and all their low-ball snared customers would just buy a higher priced product. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
unforgiven Posted December 21, 2021 Report Share Posted December 21, 2021 You get what you pay for. Being hit or miss, some guys it works majority no worky. Now it's no longer a $700.00 rifle. Not that it takes a lot of money to get it running but there is a bit of fukin around. Just my 2 mags. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rsquared Posted December 21, 2021 Report Share Posted December 21, 2021 10 hours ago, jtallen83 said: I just wish they would put out some 51T's so I can use my stuff on more rifles. Used ones with worn off teeth are getting well past $100 and some models go past $300 regularly on ebay. I bought the last one my LGS could get near two years ago now and he hasn't been able to get them since. At one point there were some knock offs for $125 but I won't risk the cans, I've already used one free "worn latch" fix, can't say enough good about the customer service pre-PSA, my thought was get the AAC's customer service guy over to headquarters now PSA, he knows his schit! I'm right there with you Jim. I had the same type of "worn latch" fix on one of mine. The CS was outstanding. Painless, fast and zero cost to me. Plus, they even re-did the finish on the outside from where I had scratched it up over the years. Hopefully, they don't degrade the CS side of AAC. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
shaffe48 Posted December 28, 2021 Report Share Posted December 28, 2021 I think the better depiction of reality is most of them work but a few don't. New owners of the few that don't become members here and ask questions about it. The problem is compounded by the fact that PSA buyers are likely less knowledgeable about the platform and have less knowledgeable friends to ask. Further, since PSA is mostly online those with problems reach out online. Hence why YouTube videos tend to report high reliability. Some may be getting cherry picked items but more likely they are getting representative rifles. Unlike new forum members, YouTube creators don't start channels with thousands of subscribers just so they can complain about the new psa they bought. Some will only report favorable outcomes in hopes of affiliate opportunities and sponsorships. But the fact is that well balanced and truthful creators have reported good reliability from their gen 3 rifles. Further, it doesn't seem from forum posts that PSA has a monopoly on quality control and design issues. That's not to say they don't have more issues as a percentage they may or may not. But that clearly doesn't equate to most or even a high percentage having problems. Finally, I can understand some people's angst about some of the details of psa design decisions. But most people buying these rifles aren't hovering over them with a micrometer. Does it work or doesn't it? That's what they care about. And as many have noted, upgrading the parts isn't necessarily difficult or expensive for those who care. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Matt.Cross Posted December 28, 2021 Report Share Posted December 28, 2021 On 12/27/2021 at 8:35 PM, shaffe48 said: I think the better depiction of reality is most of them work but a few don't. New owners of the few that don't become members here and ask questions about it. The problem is compounded by the fact that PSA buyers are likely less knowledgeable about the platform and have less knowledgeable friends to ask. Further, since PSA is mostly online those with problems reach out online. Hence why YouTube videos tend to report high reliability. Some may be getting cherry picked items but more likely they are getting representative rifles. Unlike new forum members, YouTube creators don't start channels with thousands of subscribers just so they can complain about the new psa they bought. Some will only report favorable outcomes in hopes of affiliate opportunities and sponsorships. But the fact is that well balanced and truthful creators have reported good reliability from their gen 3 rifles. Further, it doesn't seem from forum posts that PSA has a monopoly on quality control and design issues. That's not to say they don't have more issues as a percentage they may or may not. But that clearly doesn't equate to most or even a high percentage having problems. Finally, I can understand some people's angst about some of the details of psa design decisions. But most people buying these rifles aren't hovering over them with a micrometer. Does it work or doesn't it? That's what they care about. And as many have noted, upgrading the parts isn't necessarily difficult or expensive for those who care. I can understand why someone who has been here since September 1st might feel that way, but those of us who have spent more than a decade diagnosing this platform and participating in this forum for that period have seen a great deal to the contrary of your opinion. Then there's my own experiences with the company and it's platform, which is consistent with it's reputation here. I bought one so I wouldn't have to conjecture about whether or not it would work off the shelf. That's been within a year of today's date. If you wanna make some guesses about how well that worked out, I can tell you firsthand that as a random recent sample of one, mine didn't work. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
98Z5V Posted December 28, 2021 Report Share Posted December 28, 2021 1 hour ago, shaffe48 said: Finally, I can understand some people's angst about some of the details of psa design decisions. But most people buying these rifles aren't hovering over them with a micrometer. Does it work or doesn't it? That's what they care about. And as many have noted, upgrading the parts isn't necessarily difficult or expensive for those who care. I'm not sure if you're aware, but there's a very, VERY small range of "leeway" in making a large frame AR that actually runs, and one that's a complete shiitpile and doesn't run. There's a very small range on how large the gas port should be. There's a very small range on the recoil spring dimensions. There's a very small range on buffer weight. There's NO RANGE on the internal depth of the receiver extension. The gas tube should be a certain length. When one company can manage to fuk ALL that up in a rifle - they need to go back to the drawing board. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
shaffe48 Posted December 28, 2021 Report Share Posted December 28, 2021 27 minutes ago, Matt.Cross said: I can understand why someone who has been here since September 1st might feel that way, but those of us who have spent more than a decade diagnosing this platform and participating in this forum for that period have seen a great deal to the contrary of your opinion. To be honest someone who's only been on the forum since Sept 1st has the perspective to realize that people on this forum aren't getting a representative picture of 'most' people who buy any brand of firearm. Im not trying to be mean or a grouch. Im just being realistic. These people wouldn't be in business if 'most' of their rifles didn't work. But im not telling you to buy a PSA and it would seem you haven't. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jtallen83 Posted December 28, 2021 Report Share Posted December 28, 2021 4 minutes ago, shaffe48 said: people on this forum aren't getting a representative picture of 'most' people who buy any brand of firearm. Im not trying to be mean or a grouch. Im just being realistic. Realistically we get a pretty good idea of who has issues and who doesn't, who fixes issues and who doesn't. PSA makes me grouchy because there was a no cost to them breakdown here on how to make their rifles run great before they had been out a year..... but then their rep was gone by then if I remember right, didn't stick around to blame ammo very long. Who knows how many people THINK they have a functioning rifle in the safe. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
shaffe48 Posted December 28, 2021 Report Share Posted December 28, 2021 35 minutes ago, jtallen83 said: Realistically we get a pretty good idea of who has issues and who doesn't, who fixes issues and who doesn't. PSA makes me grouchy because there was a no cost to them breakdown here on how to make their rifles run great before they had been out a year..... but then their rep was gone by then if I remember right, didn't stick around to blame ammo very long. Who knows how many people THINK they have a functioning rifle in the safe. I get it. One of their reps ticked you off. It's human to vent. Has any other major company immediately revamped its product line based on advice given here on an internet forum to one of their representatives? I doubt it because peons that work for social media marketing don't control product specs😀 One thing I am certain of is we can't get out of this by claiming PSA customers are simply imagining their rifle works. Now that's just denial.😀 At least they are making many changes for whatever reason. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Matt.Cross Posted December 28, 2021 Report Share Posted December 28, 2021 On 12/27/2021 at 10:46 PM, shaffe48 said: But im not telling you to buy a PSA and it would seem you haven't. On 12/27/2021 at 10:09 PM, Matt.Cross said: I bought one so I wouldn't have to conjecture about whether or not it would work off the shelf. That's been within a year of today's date. Just a heads up, I have bought one, just to re-iterate. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
98Z5V Posted December 28, 2021 Report Share Posted December 28, 2021 2 hours ago, 98Z5V said: I'm not sure if you're aware, but there's a very, VERY small range of "leeway" in making a large frame AR that actually runs, and one that's a complete shiitpile and doesn't run. There's a very small range on how large the gas port should be. There's a very small range on the recoil spring dimensions. There's a very small range on buffer weight. There's NO RANGE on the internal depth of the receiver extension. The gas tube should be a certain length. When one company can manage to fuk ALL that up in a rifle - they need to go back to the drawing board. 1 hour ago, shaffe48 said: To be honest someone who's only been on the forum since Sept 1st has the perspective to realize that people on this forum aren't getting a representative picture of 'most' people who buy any brand of firearm. Im not trying to be mean or a grouch. Im just being realistic. These people wouldn't be in business if 'most' of their rifles didn't work. But im not telling you to buy a PSA and it would seem you haven't. Go back and address what I stated. I've been through this rodeo. I HAVE the "perspective." \ Address that part of it, because you glossed over it, when I made my statement. Like looking that that fat chick at the bar at 2am - you really didn't want to look that way, with all your friends looking at you... so you didn't even address it... Let's hear it. Address my statement. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
98Z5V Posted December 28, 2021 Report Share Posted December 28, 2021 (edited) @shaffe48, you're online right now... Address my statement.. Edited December 28, 2021 by 98Z5V Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
shaffe48 Posted December 28, 2021 Report Share Posted December 28, 2021 49 minutes ago, 98Z5V said: Go back and address what I stated. I've been through this rodeo. I HAVE the "perspective." \ Address that part of it, because you glossed over it, when I made my statement. Like looking that that fat chick at the bar at 2am - you really didn't want to look that way, with all your friends looking at you... so you didn't even address it... Let's hear it. Address my statement. I didn't gloss over your statement. I didn't even respond to you. I work and have worked at a corporation. Every day I see things within my expertise that are completely wrong. Every day no one cares. Every day life goes on. Decisions in big organizations aren't being made by people with technical expertise or really by people who are all that competent. Really no different from the military. Management mostly cares about what's in it for their piece of the pie. They certainly didnt get where they are by being smart. Since good ideas almost never come from management, good ideas almost never get used. Big companies give us OK products that work most of the time for an ok price. Pay more or less and you'll get more or less features and quality control. But if you're looking for something that matches your spec list and which responds to you then you best either look much smaller or do it yourself. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Recommended Posts
Join the conversation
You can post now and register later. If you have an account, sign in now to post with your account.