Winter Survival

[Cunuckgaucho]

23 hours ago, Sisco said:

I really like Gostwear in Canada, also Big Bill out of Canada. Got BB Merino wool pants as well as one of their Merino wool bow hunting jackets. Really good quality for a decent price. Gostwear has some of the best outdoor construction gear I have seen.

Don't know about Gostwear, Big Bill is good stuff. My foul weather gear is a mix of Helly Hansen, Viking and Dakota(both Canadian)

For waterproof breathable gear I got away from using the spray and having excellent results with Nikwax 2 part wash and treatment in the washing machine.

The worst for me is working all day in rain just above freezing, it really test the waterproofing. 

[Sisco]

16 hours ago, Cunuckgaucho said:

Don't know about Gostwear, Big Bill is good stuff. My foul weather gear is a mix of Helly Hansen, Viking and Dakota(both Canadian)

For waterproof breathable gear I got away from using the spray and having excellent results with Nikwax 2 part wash and treatment in the washing machine.

The worst for me is working all day in rain just above freezing, it really test the waterproofing. 

Viking is good stuff. Got my wife a Viking ski jacket when we went to Whistler/Blackcomb north of Vancouver in the 80’s. Stay away from waterproofing sprays. They are full of PFAS carginocens. Wish I had known that in the 80’s. Check out Gostwear’s web site, it is pretty complete.

[Cunuckgaucho]

On 12/16/2021 at 1:25 PM, Sisco said:

Stay away from waterproofing sprays. They are full of PFAS carginocens. 

Check out Gostwear’s web site, it is pretty complete.

Spray stuff smelled so bad the only way to use it was outdoors with a bit of a breeze, it was hard to get even coverage. The 2 part wash is great, the first part washes ( regular detergents don't work for waterproof/breathable) the second part is added to wash afterward, don't need to wait for gear to dry).

[98Z5V]

I see alot of you guys talking about GEAR...   Clothes...  But nobody is talking about what it takes to SURVIVE in a real WINTER SURVIVAL scenario...  

Just my take on it. 

[98Z5V]

This thread is about WINTER SURVIVAL, right?  Not WINTER CLOTHES...   Asking for a friend... 

[shaffe48]

Hypothermia is a bitch.  You'd better have layers or a way to start a fire.  Not hard finding twigs to start a fire until there's a foot or two of snow covering the twigs.  

[98Z5V]

Snowshoe rabbits.  Always face downhill, and freeze in position when they're scared.  Always.  They're usually around the snow basin that forms around a pine tree - or any tree.  There's a bowl around the tree base in deeper snow.  They're about 3 to 5 feet outside that bowl around the tree.  And facing downhill.

You WALK downhill with a big stick, and when you see one of those white bastards outside of that tree, walk slowly, with stick overhead.  Get to within sticks-length, and SMACK!

There's dinner for the night.  Back in your snow cave.  THAT is winter survival, not winter clothing.

 

[shaffe48]

3 minutes ago, 98Z5V said:

Snowshoe rabbits.  Always face downhill, and freeze in position when they're scared.  Always.  They're usually around the snow basin that forms around a pine tree - or any tree.  There's a bowl around the tree base in deeper snow.  They're about 3 to 5 feet outside that bowl around the tree.  And facing downhill.

You WALK downhill with a big stick, and when you see one of those white bastards outside of that tree, walk slowly, with stick overhead.  Get to within sticks-length, and SMACK!

There's dinner for the night.  Back in your snow cave.  THAT is winter survival, not winter clothing.

 

You can literally survive for weeks minimum without eating anything.  Especially if you're carrying an extra 30 like me and most Americans.

 

Survival is about hypothermia and water.

[98Z5V]

47 minutes ago, shaffe48 said:

You can literally survive for weeks minimum without eating anything.  Especially if you're carrying an extra 30 like me and most Americans.

 

Survival is about hypothermia and water.

3 weeks without food, 3 days without water.  Then, dead.  But, as that goes on, you get weaker and weaker.  That last 3rd week without food, that showshoe rabbit might just beat your own ass, right there in the snow.  With your own club.

Survival is about "not getting into that deficit."  Hydration is all about not getting dehydrated in the first place...   As soon as you feel like "I'm thirsty" - you're already dehydrated...   Snow everywhere in the winter?  No worries about getting dehydrated, right?  Wrong.  Don't eat it - it'll immediately chill your (valuable) body core temperature.  You have to boil snow, melt it, make it "water."  That means you need to have fire or heat - to make snow into water...  Or...  just kill yourself and crush your body core temp... 

It's not about time.  It's about staying ahead of that time, staying ahead of that game, and keeping cool about it, when it's not really working out at the minute. THAT is what survival is about.

Not to compound that with cold weather, hot weather, desert weather  - all tasks become more difficult.

This thread shouldn't be about clothing...     Please discuss, with real information, everyone...  

 

Edited December 18, 2021 by 98Z5V

[jtallen83]

6 hours ago, 98Z5V said:

It's not about time.  It's about staying ahead of that time, staying ahead of that game, and keeping cool about it, when it's not really working out at the minute. THAT is what survival is about.

Yep, that's when things like muscle memory will save you, you just make it happen without thinking. 

Fire is the schit for cold weather, every car I have has three plus methods to start a fire with kindling for each, people will question your mental stability, stay the course. I make a game out of fire starting when the grandkids are around, when issued an intern right after the first aide talk was "You wanna learn how to start a fire?". Friends have accused me of having a slight obsession with it, might be something to that. 

Related gear tip, just like tourniquets, don't practice with the ferrocerium rod you have for emergency use, get a practice rod. I recently learned on the ESEE forum that these rods can corrode fairly quickly when the protective coating has been removed, you can re-seal with about anything, nail polish works. 

I had a close call with hypothermia when I was 14. I was running my trap line in January, zero dark thirty and well below zero. I was chopping a stick set out of the ice when the ice gave way, waders filled up but I got myself out, left all my gear lay except the rifle and ran for my moped, yes I used my moped to run my trap line. Then I made a bad choice and headed for home, I was right on the outskirts of town with a trailer court right there, I should have went to the first warm building but I drove the 4 or 5 miles home, teeth banging together, everything convulsing involuntarily. I left a trail of wet clothes to the bathroom, climbed in the tub and got the water going. then mom's up asking if I'm ok, what's going on, I got enough out that she went back to bed, half hour later when Dad got home from his night shift I was still getting bouts of the shakes trying to eat breakfast and explain why I had to go back out and get my gear. At the time my big concern was someone deciding I shouldn't be trapping alone, later I realized what a close call I had. I should have went to the first warm building, I shouldn't have done the tub full of water thing to warm up, been told that can easily cause shock, maybe it did cause things got blurry for a bit. IF I would have had something dry to get into clothing wise it would have made a huge difference. I don't throw away those ratty old insulated coveralls, they get rolled up tight and stowed in a vehicle, dry clothing without knees is better than any kind of wet. Being close to an urban area making a fire didn't cross my mind but I wonder if I could have made it happen in time, could I have gathered the fuel fast enough, when lit would it have been enough with nothing dry to cover with? 

I didn't stop making water sets in January, I rounded up enough wood to spread my weight out, give me just a second more to get clear. When I started using a car it stayed running and warm with a set of dry clothes. Your body will automatically make adjustments after lessons on the ground, there was a sense of heightened awareness when chopping ice that is holding me up after that experience.

Hypothermia can come on slow as well, much more dangerous in my mind, more on that experience later. 

 

 

[unforgiven]

11 hours ago, 98Z5V said:

This thread is about WINTER SURVIVAL, right?  Not WINTER CLOTHES...   Asking for a friend... 

True this is not about field craft. Eric and I were talking about staying dry and hydrated while working outside. Take off as many layers as it takes to prevent sweating. Biggest challenge for food if you're not self contained is getting something from the roach coach and not getting sick. Riding my 79 Yammy during the winter I didn't know hypothermia and almost lost control of the fukin thing did all I could to get off. 

[BrianK]

11 minutes ago, unforgiven said:

 Take off as many layers as it takes to prevent sweating. 

Yup. 

Decades ago when I was MUCH younger and hard up for $ and took any job, I chopped for a gent who logged with horses. That winter saw temps down to -30°F and the job didn't stop just because it was cold. I would dress in layers and remove them as I worked. I would be down to my longjohn top and sweating and steaming just like the horses. When lunch break came I'd have to through all the layers back on to keep from freezing. I would always bring a wide mouth thermos of fortified Ramen soup and I'd dunk my frozen sandwich in it to thaw it a bit. 

But yes, when you start to sweat you must remove layers. most wet insulation just doesn't insulate very well. 

[Cunuckgaucho]

11 hours ago, 98Z5V said:

Snowshoe rabbits.  Always face downhill, and freeze in position when they're scared.  Always.  They're usually around the snow basin that forms around a pine tree - or any tree.  There's a bowl around the tree base in deeper snow.  They're about 3 to 5 feet outside that bowl around the tree.  And facing downhill.

 

There's dinner for the night.  Back in your snow cave.  THAT is winter survival, not winter clothing.

 

Tree wells can be your friend and provide shelter but has the potential to kill you, usually by suffocation.

Tree wells can get quite deep and most people accidently falling in usually go in head first. Skiing, boarding, snowshoeing around trees beware of collapsing edges where you'll also bring down a mass of snow on you.

On the plus side they make a great shelter if you are aware of them. Ideally come at it from the downhill side digging uphill but make sure the trench in has an L or T shape to stop/reduce the wind coming in.

I've never had any luck at building an igloo  it takes forever and pretty much looks like it was done by a drunk 3 legged pig 😲. A tree well shelter is pretty much a snow cave half built.

 

[shaffe48]

I need to get a tiny compass for my wallet but I have this lighter I need to start carrying wrapped with tape to use as tinder.  Not smoking could be bad for your health if you need a light.  I've successfully started a fire like this with twigs from the ground.  If snow covered you would need to be pull them from fallen trees.  At least a fire will give you a fighting chance if you can find cover from the wind.

You couldn't boil water without something to boil in so instead I have a quart freezer bag with four of the good water tabs.  Fits easily in the wallet.  Most of us carry a firearm capable to acquire meat well before we need it and meat will keep in winter.

My chest rig for my rifle has a multi tool, flash light, and compass.  I have a supplemental 15 liter pack with similar fire making gear, water, and six cliff bars.  I have a poncho for water and wind protection and cordage to turn it into a tarp shelter along with large trash bags to fill with debris to insulate from the ground.  A mylar emergency blanket reflects heat from a fire.  Finally a mini water filter provides unlimited water but don't let water filters freeze.

There's also remaining room in the little pack for an additional warming layer...which is the smart way of doing things.  If I know I'm out there I'd have a full pack and the correct warming and sleeping layers and other gear.  Being stupid in the winter is dangerous.

[shooterrex]

You can make something to boil water in out of tin foil. Takes up almost no room folded up

[shaffe48]

6 hours ago, shooterrex said:

You can make something to boil water in out of tin foil. Takes up almost no room folded up

I used all of my tinfoil to make a hat.

[98Z5V]

20 hours ago, shaffe48 said:

I need to get a tiny compass for my wallet but I have this lighter I need to start carrying wrapped with tape to use as tinder.  Not smoking could be bad for your health if you need a light.  I've successfully started a fire like this with twigs from the ground.  If snow covered you would need to be pull them from fallen trees.  At least a fire will give you a fighting chance if you can find cover from the wind.

You couldn't boil water without something to boil in so instead I have a quart freezer bag with four of the good water tabs.  Fits easily in the wallet.  Most of us carry a firearm capable to acquire meat well before we need it and meat will keep in winter.

My chest rig for my rifle has a multi tool, flash light, and compass.  I have a supplemental 15 liter pack with similar fire making gear, water, and six cliff bars.  I have a poncho for water and wind protection and cordage to turn it into a tarp shelter along with large trash bags to fill with debris to insulate from the ground.  A mylar emergency blanket reflects heat from a fire.  Finally a mini water filter provides unlimited water but don't let water filters freeze.

There's also remaining room in the little pack for an additional warming layer...which is the smart way of doing things.  If I know I'm out there I'd have a full pack and the correct warming and sleeping layers and other gear.  Being stupid in the winter is dangerous.

^^^   This is squared away.  That's what I'm talking about.  

11 hours ago, shaffe48 said:

I used all of my tinfoil to make a hat.

[DNP]

11 hours ago, shaffe48 said:

I used all of my tinfoil to make a hat.

That’s why I wear one…you never know when you’ll get trapped in a San Diego winter storm and have to boil water.   
 

Plus side is that it’s already bowl shaped. 

Edited December 23, 2021 by DNP

[Armed Eye Doc]

I watched a video a while back (that I can't find at the moment) where a guy showed that sitting under a blanket with a lit candle can somewhat quickly raise your body temperature when you are outside when it is cold. 

[Armed Eye Doc]

2 minutes ago, DNP said:

Plus side is that it’s already bowl shaped

Yours would be more pointed as I recall. 

[Sisco]

The FIRST part of winter survival is what you wear…period. Then you go on to water, shelter, food, and mobility. I have never been in a situation in winter where I had to find food. I have hunted rabbits in the winter, I have ice fished a lot, but never in a situation where I needed it to keep from starving. For water, obviously if you have a lake or stream and an axe you can do okay. If you rely on eating snow, you are going to get dehydrated unless you take the time to melt it and condense it to water. Snow is mostly air molecules and in the mountains powder snow has even less moisture. When we trekked across the BWCA and went out to Yellowstone, we carried plastic boda bags inside our clothing under our arms. When we stopped we always crammed as much snow as possible in it to allow it to melt by our body heat. Even starting in the morning with a full bag of water, we could barely keep up with the demands for water we had. We were on skis and exerting ourselves, however. When we stopped to set up camp water replenishment, from streams or a lake was the first thing we took care of. With the problem of giardia, and tape worm eggs, we always ran stream and Lake Water through a Katadyn water filter of not more then 5 microns.
Rabbits, by the way, have very little fat. They work for short term survival, but dietary fat is what you need for long term winter survival. Snaring a beaver or a porcupine would be a big pay day as they both have a high amount of fat. The beaver tail is incredibly high in fat. .
The other thing, is that things that work in one place won’t necessarily work in another. If you are on the north end of Vancouver Island, or South Eastern Alaska, your problem is going to be too much water and your shelter needs will have to protect you from that. If you are above the Arctic circle, until the spring thaw, water isn’t much of an issue, but wind and brutal cold are.

[DNP]

1 hour ago, Armed Eye Doc said:

Yours would be more pointed as I recall. 

I didn’t say where I was wearing it. 

[98Z5V]

40 minutes ago, Sisco said:

 If you rely on eating snow, you are going to get dehydrated unless you take the time to melt it and condense it to water.

Plus, dehydration isn't the issue - eating snow crushes your body core temperature, and you can't afford to have that happen, in a winter survival scenario.  Can't afford it.  Snow is great - plentiful water supply - but you have to turn it into water first...

[shooterrex]

7 hours ago, Armed Eye Doc said:

I watched a video a while back (that I can't find at the moment) where a guy showed that sitting under a blanket with a lit candle can somewhat quickly raise your body temperature when you are outside when it is cold. 

Yep the blanket catches fire and you are warm for a bit.

[Magwa]

Fire is your friend we are talking survival, not a stroll in the winter you better have multiple ways to start one ,as far as warm I have never had anything that beats Natural hair or leather like Buffalo hair in Moccasins calf high and greased or brain tanned hides they can get wet but still keep air trapped in the hide. Carry a candle at all times light it first from that flame you can build a bon fire if you so wish always look for a rock face to build your fire against the reflective heat will make you twice a s warm than just standing and turning around trying to get everything warm. I always have a wool Blanket Hudson bay grade or better if I am camping in the snow rolled up and worn across the shoulder helps keep you warm as well . I also carry a small copper pot that I can boil water in it is in the blanket at one end rolled in , inside the pot fire making supplies . always keep a knife or small axe with you .... if there are more than two people make a dog pile include the dogs if you have one one blanket on the ground and one over you and everyone cuddled up as close as can be , take turns being on the outside it is amazing how you can stay warm in a pile.

   If I am going to be out for a few days I will wear my Copote  a blanket coat made from a very heavy wool blanket they will keep you warm and get you warm in a hurry Carry things that have multiple uses ... I will take some pics of winter gear...