Firearms Definitions, and stupid fukkers...

[jtallen83]

Even some of our own members that sell parts improperly use AR-10;

http://www.dwilsonmfg.com/store/c5/AR10_Parts.html

He corrects it right away in the description of the product so why use it in the title? Google, that's why! More people use and search for AR-10 so if you are selling parts and want to be found then you need a popular search term in the title. I learned this lesson first hand selling old tools on eBay, words like Stanley and Disston could double the number of hits I got on an item.

When it comes to the misuse of AR-10 all we can do is keep putting the word out, if Armalite doesn't get their QC issues handled then eventually the term will loose its luster for drawing hits.

[survivalshop]

  The whole point of the AR 10 comparison was to show how new people in to the large frame AR's , are not savvy on the 308 AR's & of course they should say they have a AR10 type AR , but the 308 chambered AR is synonymous to the Armalite AR 10 , so some , in both the manufacturing side & retail sales , use the term to separate it from its smaller framed version the AR 15 .

 On the term AR 15 , Colt owns the rights to that designation , do you see any Colt owners jumping in & saying thats not a AR 15 , because its not a Colt & it doesn't matter if its Mil Spec or not , its a name recognition . 

 

10 hours ago, Matt.Cross said:

I don't own either, Armalite or DPMS, I don't have a dog in the brand superiority fight. 

With regards to the online vendors who mislabel their wares, they have to deal with the dissatisfied customers, returns, and liabilities of misinforming folks.

Just because enough idiots are doing it doesn't mean it should be mainstream, or that it's not insensible. If anything is childish, it's an "everyone else does it so it must be OK" mindset.

People that get screwed over by online vendors don't generally go back to them for help, they come here to get information. If they get here and run into the same ambiguity and confusion, we've done them a disservice.

That's where I'm coming from, and to quote Forrest Gump, "That's all I have to say about that."

  I agree & the only reason I wrote that I had a POS DPMS is because there is so much bias on them , I have never owned a factory built AR & still don't , in any Caliber or any configuration , including the Select fire versions I built & sold , I have got many on trade ins when i was a FFL dealer, never kept one of them . I have built every AR, in every caliber, I have or used to shoot & Been building & repairing them since the seventies .

  You have never heard me say one rifle was better then another & never will . I have said in many posts here that the proper manufacturer of said AR 308's is required to get the proper component for fitment , though as I have brought up here , their are very slight differences in the 308 chambered rifles , but some incorrect components can cause issues with function , as with just about every firearm out there . To me , they are all the same , just different in ways & as any repairman , be it a car , motorcycle , washing machine , the correct part , by model & manufacturer is needed to keep them in working order . Just don't bring up thet your Particular brand of Firearm is perfection & better then any one else , because I made a living repairing just about every kind or brand out there . Sooner or later they will break & need repair , I don't care who makes them , if they are used enough to get to the service life of said components .

28 minutes ago, jtallen83 said:

Even some of our own members that sell parts improperly use AR-10;

http://www.dwilsonmfg.com/store/c5/AR10_Parts.html

He corrects it right away in the description of the product so why use it in the title? Google, that's why! More people use and search for AR-10 so if you are selling parts and want to be found then you need a popular search term in the title. I learned this lesson first hand selling old tools on eBay, words like Stanley and Disston could double the number of hits I got on an item.

When it comes to the misuse of AR-10 all we can do is keep putting the word out, if Armalite doesn't get their QC issues handled then eventually the term will loose its luster for drawing hits.

  Yep !

Edited May 5, 2017 by survivalshop

[98Z5V]

2 hours ago, survivalshop said:

 Just don't bring up thet your Particular brand of Firearm is perfection & better then any one else , because I made a living repairing just about every kind or brand out there .

NOW I get where you're coming from... 

[DNP]

So....how bout them LA Chargers?

[Matt.Cross]

57 minutes ago, DNP said:

So....how bout them LA Chargers?

[Rsquared]

On ‎5‎/‎3‎/‎2017 at 7:21 PM, jtallen83 said:

Hey now! We were minding our own business even though the misuse of "AR-10" is probably the most prevalent violation discussed, but then we understand why everyone would want to call their rifle an AR-10, everyone want to associate themselves with perfection

or what used to be anyway.............

 

On ‎5‎/‎3‎/‎2017 at 7:40 PM, shepp said:

Not the fish I thought I'd catch but I'll take it??

I see what you were fishing for fella. But I've been busy this week, and haven't cruised the forum much. In the "catch-up" process for the week now.

Typical. I wasn't even aware of the conversation that was going on.......and I was still being kicked in the balls (just for fun of course).

[Sisco]

You know, somewhere on the Internet, In Cyrrillic alphabet, there has gotta be a bunch of Russians arguing over their version of the same thing: "Nyet! You no ever call my AKM an AK-47, or I will hit you over the head with my vodka bottle, after I empty it first, Da? "What you mean, your Bulgarian POS is better than my classic wood stocked AK! Bulgarian rifles are like their women, crude and hairy!" "Ak74's suckski!"

Comrade Sheppovich, I think we need to ban Demetriev, Da?

[Matt.Cross]

Bah, I'm done with it. It was originally a thread about terminology pet peeves. I didn't mean for it to become a dissertation on how the prevalence of a misused term excuses it's misuse. Ya'll pardon me while I go back to being privately annoyed by apathetic morons who inconvenience others unnecessarily.

[shepp]

2 hours ago, Rsquared said:

 

I see what you were fishing for fella. But I've been busy this week, and haven't cruised the forum much. In the "catch-up" process for the week now.

Typical. I wasn't even aware of the conversation that was going on.......and I was still being kicked in the balls (just for fun of course).

I just quit reading this thread lol I was fishing for one of those big Maryland stripers. 

[bubbas4570]

All of this discussion falls on to the manufacturers shoulders (and heads)...as they insisted on "mine is better for tolerances/manufacturing)....and damn the nomenclature.

By insisting on minute changes in tolerance (ignoring any "milspec" congruence in the tolerances) they have set us (and them) up for this BS.

Buy an AR15,....put one together.....most all parts fit/function/work in the same frame....no worries of thousandths of gss tube differences/BCG'S/ect......

I do believe that everyone here can agree on my basic points.

[survivalshop]

 I believe my posts were talking about firearms designations, definitions  , is not AR 10 a firearm designation/definition  ?  ( or I'm just a stupid fuker )

 

To make things more confusing  here are some points . Though i'm not sure of dates , when all this happened , Rough time lines here https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/ArmaLite

 Colt buys the rights to the term AR 15 from the original Armalite Company , brings suit to any other AR company/manufacturer , that they can not use any of the letters "A " or " R" in their firearms designation , they tried to keep everyone from using the Numerals "1" ,"5" or " 15 ' , but failed , so no one could use "AR" 15 , or any combo of the "A" or "R " .

 Olympic Arms , had called their version of the AR 15 , CAR 15 ( I have one ) & were promptly sued by Colt  , ya have to know at the time , their were not many manufacturers of AR rifles at the time & I mean very few .  Now at some time there about Armalite was picked up by the present parent company 1996 or something like that .

 What has me confused & maybe you people here can enlighten me , is , if Colt , who still has the rights to the " AR 15 " designation & sued everyone at the time that they owned the term "AR " in any form , how is it Armalite can use it ?  Maybe they are paying for the rights ? You tell me .

 I was big into firearm dealing at the time , there was no internet , we all only knew what we read in the Gun books , Shot Gun News & at Gun Show where we would talk about this $hit !

& for all of you that stopped reading this thread , go back to sleep .

Edited May 6, 2017 by survivalshop

[jtallen83]

1 hour ago, survivalshop said:

 What has me confused & maybe you people here can enlighten me , is , if Colt , who still has the rights to the " AR 15 " designation & sued everyone at the time that they owned the term "AR " in any form , how is it Armalite can use it ?  Maybe they are paying for the rights ? You tell me .

They do not use it on their 5.56 rifles, they are designated M-15's.

https://armalite.com/product-category/complete-firearms/m-15/

Even there second line Eagle product in 5.56 does not, they are Eagle-15's

https://armalite.com/shop/eagle-15-2/

Now on the rest of their rifles in other calibers they use AR, this is obviously something to do with how that lawsuit was decided, must be a caliber specific thing. Are other makers actually using AR to designate a rifle or is it just the community calling them that?

[blue109]

I had a lower from the 70s made by Advanced Armament Inc that was also designated M15. 

 

 

Bam.

[98Z5V]

5 hours ago, survivalshop said:

ys the rights to the term AR 15 from the original Armalite Company , brings suit to any other AR company/manufacturer , that they can not use any of the letters "A " or " R" in their firearms designation , they tried to keep everyone from using the Numerals "1" ,"5" or " 15 ' , but failed , so no one could use "AR" 15 , or any combo of the "A" or "R " .

 Olympic Arms , had called their version of the AR 15 , CAR 15 ( I have one ) & were promptly sued by Colt  , ya have to know at the time , their were not many manufacturers of AR rifles at the time & I mean very few .  Now at some time there about Armalite was picked up by the present parent company 1996 or something like that .

 What has me confused & maybe you people here can enlighten me , is , if Colt , who still has the rights to the " AR 15 " designation & sued everyone at the time that they owned the term "AR " in any form , how is it Armalite can use it ?  Maybe they are paying for the rights ? You tell me .

 I was big into firearm dealing at the time , there was no internet , we all only knew what we read in the Gun books , Shot Gun News & at Gun Show where we would talk about this $hit !

& for all of you that stopped reading this thread , go back to sleep .

That was discussed in this thread - Colt and AR-15:

 

[survivalshop]

 Well the Patents don't mean a thing , they own the "AR 15 Name & have sued to keep it that way , just how many AR15 type rifle companies call their rifles " AR 15" ? 

  My point is , you don't see Colt owners saying thats not an AR 15 , you have something else , when you call your rifle a AR15 , now do ya . 

Edited May 6, 2017 by survivalshop

[98Z5V]

37 minutes ago, survivalshop said:

 Well the Patents don't mean a thing , they own the "AR 15 Name & have sued to keep it that way , just how many AR15 type rifle companies call their rifles " AR 15" ? 

  My point is , you don't see Colt owners saying thats not an AR 15 , you have something else , when you call your rifle a AR15 , now do ya . 

^^^  That's exactly why I said this, in that other thread:

Here's a better history on it:

https://www.ammoland.com/2016/04/ar-15-rifle-historical-time-line/#axzz4g5G4WX3f

Bottom line is easy - Colt trademarked the name, after the patents expired.  Colt hasn't raised as much hell about the "AR-15" term use in the weapon system's designation.  If they'd try it now, they'd have a very hard time going after every manufacturer, based on a term that's become common-use (that they allowed to become a common-use term).

Shiit, they don't even hold the M-16 base contract with the military anymore... 

So, to answer your original question - yes, it's totally ok to call any piece of crap rifle you build in 5.56/.223 an AR-15.

[survivalshop]

 

 

 

2 minutes ago, 98Z5V said:

Here's a better history on it:

https://www.ammoland.com/2016/04/ar-15-rifle-historical-time-line/#axzz4g5G4WX3f

Bottom line is easy - Colt trademarked the name, after the patents expired.  Colt hasn't raised as much hell about the "AR-15" term use in the weapon system's designation.  If they'd try it now, they'd have a very hard time going after every manufacturer, based on a term that's become common-use (that they allowed to become a common-use term).

Shiit, they don't even hold the M-16 base contract with the military anymore... 

So, to answer your original question - yes, it's totally ok to call any piece of crap rifle you build in 5.56/.223 an AR-15.

So is AR 10 , just look up a part for a DPMS LR 308  Sorry , I couldn't resist .

[Chaindragger]

Are AR 10's assault rifles?

[Sisco]

1 hour ago, Chaindragger said:

Are AR 10's assault rifles?

Oh heavens no. AR10's are "modern sporting rifles". Not to be confused with all those thuggish AK's, AR15's, Tavors, Uzis, Galils and what not.

[Chaindragger]

1 hour ago, Sisco said:

Oh heavens no. AR10's are "modern sporting rifles". Not to be confused with all those thuggish AK's, AR15's, Tavors, Uzis, Galils and what not.

Thank goodness.

 

[Matt.Cross]

I've heard reports of snowflakes firing an AR-10 without crying and needing therapy.....

[Sisco]

1 hour ago, Matt.Cross said:

I've heard reports of snowflakes firing an AR-10 without crying and needing therapy.....

Maybe, but my therapist says it helps. Especially when you have such a strong bond to your rifle. Excuse me, I have to go check the humidity in the gun safe and make sure my little darlin is comfortable.

[Rsquared]

On ‎5‎/‎30‎/‎2017 at 3:49 PM, Sisco said:

Oh heavens no. AR10's are "modern sporting rifles". Not to be confused with all those thuggish AK's, AR15's, Tavors, Uzis, Galils and what not.

 

[unforgiven]

22 hours ago, Sisco said:

Maybe, but my therapist says it helps. Especially when you have such a strong bond to your rifle. Excuse me, I have to go check the humidity in the gun safe and make sure my little darlin is comfortable.

and you know they are not lonely.

[bubbas4570]

You guys are making me lonely...my rifles are at home alone, and here I am at work.....