Another Navy Ship collision ?

[survivalshop]

 WTF is going on with these ship collisions ? There is something not right with operations , I can't believe they are all asleep !

http://www.breitbart.com/news/u-s-navy-warship-collides-with-oil-tanker-near-singapore-10-sailors-missing/

[mrmackc]

Young drivers don't know how to drive stick shifts or things without automatic emergency braking?

"Sir !,   Don't say Starboard or Port....dammit just say Right turn....or Left turn !

[Malig8r]

2 hours ago, mrmackc said:

Young drivers don't know how to drive stick shifts or things without automatic emergency braking?

"Sir !,   Don't say Starboard or Port....dammit just say Right turn....or Left turn !

 Now that would be funnier if it wasn't so scary! Sometimes I wonder if the newer kids can do anything that doesn't involve a XBox live or PS4 controller 

[survivalshop]

   Radar , Bridge watch , Deck watch & a very big Ship coming at you , even the Radar would have given an proximity audible alarm , well if any one was awake . Maybe the Chinese or Russians have a way of stealth for the Container Ship & the Deck watch or Bridge watch didn't see them , ya , thats it !

[DNP]

5 hours ago, Malig8r said:

 Now that would be funnier if it wasn't so scary! Sometimes I wonder if the newer kids can do anything that doesn't involve a XBox live or PS4 controller 

You want funny...wait til that's the controls the new cars come with...the old timers are screwed. 

"What's the combo to parallel park again?  Do I have to hold the right trigger and double tap the left joystick...?"

[unforgiven]

2 merchant ships wipe out 2 jillion dollar ships which is nothing compared to the loss of life. This has to be a diabolical plan for these commercial ships to ram Navy ships. Who is driving those merchant ships  ? What about there radar ? There is more to this. This is no coincidence.

[98Z5V]

Vice Adm. Joseph Aucoin, Commander of the 7th Fleet, is getting shiit-canned.  Ultimately, it IS his responsibility. 

It's a Trump-World now - do your job or you're fired.  So it is written, so it shall be.  Thus endeth the sermon. 

[survivalshop]

15 hours ago, unforgiven said:

2 merchant ships wipe out 2 jillion dollar ships which is nothing compared to the loss of life. This has to be a diabolical plan for these commercial ships to ram Navy ships. Who is driving those merchant ships  ? What about there radar ? There is more to this. This is no coincidence.

  I agree , the Ship could have gotten out of the way with no problem at all . I still I have to ask , where were the Watch , who are human eyes as a last safety shield ?

  The last two ships were T-boned , which kinda shows the other ship could have been aiming for it . We don't know all the info , fog or heavy rain could have been an issue . They say the ships were hacked & made all the bells & whistles useless , which comes back to the people standing watch , including the Bridge watch , WTF !

[shepp]

1 hour ago, survivalshop said:

  I agree , the Ship could have gotten out of the way with no problem at all . I still I have to ask , where were the Watch , who are human eyes as a last safety shield ?

  The last two ships were T-boned , which kinda shows the other ship could have been aiming for it . We don't know all the info , fog or heavy rain could have been an issue . They say the ships were hacked & made all the bells & whistles useless , which comes back to the people standing watch , including the Bridge watch , WTF !

Makes sense with China being pissed we're patrolling "their" waters

Edited August 23, 2017 by shepp

[mineralman55]

Three rammings since January! This is not coincidence, it is deliberate. It's in part caused by the politically correct crap within our military, whether it's unqualified personnel in positions of consequence or authority, or rules of engagements promulgated from the nitwit civilian commanders.

Frankly, we could stop it immediately. Any ship within 5 miles of a U.S. warship gets an immediate warning. Within 3 miles, sink it. No ship on the high seas is worth a single U.S. sailor's life.

[EngrBob]

15 minutes ago, mineralman55 said:

No ship on the high seas is worth a single U.S. sailor's life.

^^^^That right there!

[survivalshop]

5 hours ago, mineralman55 said:

Three rammings since January! This is not coincidence, it is deliberate. It's in part caused by the politically correct crap within our military, whether it's unqualified personnel in positions of consequence or authority, or rules of engagements promulgated from the nitwit civilian commanders.

Frankly, we could stop it immediately. Any ship within 5 miles of a U.S. warship gets an immediate warning. Within 3 miles, sink it. No ship on the high seas is worth a single U.S. sailor's life.

 Most of the ships operating in open waters are on auto pilot , but that still is no excuse for aUS Naval vessel from not seeing & knowing al that is around them . You are right , something is going on & we are not being told , of course they wouldn't tell the public for security reasons . 

 As I said , these ships were broad sided , almost like the US ship was aimed for . I for one can not understand how this is even possible to happen on a modern Combat ship , they may have an operational issue , but even that doesn't make sense . 

  I'm also sure that the Ships Captain's knew full well what happened on the other collisions & should have had added watches to help with avoidance of collisions , if they didn't , they shouldn't be there !

[Sisco]

A few years ago there was an incident in the Black Sea between an Aegis Class cruiser and a Russian SU-24 Fencer. The Fencer started an approach on an attack vector and immediately the whole electronic suite on the Aegis crashed. The Fencer went over low and slow. Some EW stuff went down. Maybe the Chinese are practicing their capabilities?

[EngrBob]

4 minutes ago, Sisco said:

A few years ago there was an incident in the Black Sea between an Aegis Class cruiser and a Russian SU-24 Fencer. The Fencer started an approach on an attack vector and immediately the whole electronic suite on the Aegis crashed. The Fencer went over low and slow. Some EW stuff went down. Maybe the Chinese are practicing their capabilities?

Don't ships still have lookouts that use that low tech gear - eyes?

[ARTrooper]

were the sailors to busy playing with their torpedoes?

I would think they would only let other ships get so close. so much of this country's money goes into our navy. do you know how many soldiers could of been equipped with better gear for the cost of those ships? I can't even think of the possibilities. If we put the money into these things, we need to protect them by any means. our fleet used to be the most feared in the world, I think it is probably the laughing stock of fleets these days.

[98Z5V]

This has been a Top-Down Leadership issue, in training - or lack of training.  Hence, 7th Fleet Commander is out of a job now and looking for a cheaper apartment as we speak.  Training hasn't been (1) sufficient, and (2) enforced, and (3) drilled to proficiency.  The troops aren't trained. Mistakes happened, ALOT of shiit was missed, and our ships were hit.  It's like not seeing the barn you're running into...

So, if the leadership at the top isn't doing it's job, and the level below isn't, the level below isn't... You end up with troops that have shitty training, and these things will happen. 

Nuke EVERYONE, from the top down -the junior leaders that were TRYING to do their jobs will appreciate their new promotions, and they have LIVED the mistakes of bad leadership - they will not repeat them. 

You learn just as much from a bad leader as you do from a good leader.  The lessons you learn from each will last your entire lifetime, and you will never forget either of them. Good leaders make great troops and junior, future leaders.  BAD leaders make great troops and great future leaders.  You'll follow a good leader right into the gates of hell to accomplish your mission.  You'll make sure YOUR troops never have to learn the mistakes of bad leadership that YOU have been through, when they're under your care.  If you're a good leader...

Edited August 24, 2017 by 98Z5V

[bubbas4570]

98,

Long story short, train them to replace yourself, and have them trained like you want them to do their jobs to protect you/doing their job for you.

Something that I intrinsically knew when training those who worked with me, and it has happened. And I was happy to see them flourish afterwards.

And I don't mean I did this at a military level, but that ideal works throughout all of life.

[survivalshop]

6 hours ago, ARTrooper said:

 

were the sailors to busy playing with their torpedoes?

 

 And I still play with my Torpedo 

      Navy ships ,when I was in ,were well trained , of course we were in war time readiness , as we should be in now , but just about every ship I was on , you really get tired of drills & training , but I don't remember any ship to ship collisions  . 

    

15 hours ago, EngrBob said:

Don't ships still have lookouts that use that low tech gear - eyes?

 I've been saying that from the beginning , for two ships to be T-Boned , something is going on . I think they are relying on electronic equipment to cut down on Human watches & we all know how that can get you in trouble.

Wait till the streets are full of self driving cars ! 

[Sisco]

9 hours ago, 98Z5V said:

This has been a Top-Down Leadership issue, in training - or lack of training.  Hence, 7th Fleet Commander is out of a job now and looking for a cheaper apartment as we speak.  Training hasn't been (1) sufficient, and (2) enforced, and (3) drilled to proficiency.  The troops aren't trained. Mistakes happened, ALOT of shiit was missed, and our ships were hit.  It's like not seeing the barn you're running into...

So, if the leadership at the top isn't doing it's job, and the level below isn't, the level below isn't... You end up with troops that have shitty training, and these things will happen. 

Nuke EVERYONE, from the top down -the junior leaders that were TRYING to do their jobs will appreciate their new promotions, and they have LIVED the mistakes of bad leadership - they will not repeat them. 

You learn just as much from a bad leader as you do from a good leader.  The lessons you learn from each will last your entire lifetime, and you will never forget either of them. Good leaders make great troops and junior, future leaders.  BAD leaders make great troops and great future leaders.  You'll follow a good leader right into the gates of hell to accomplish your mission.  You'll make sure YOUR troops never have to learn the mistakes of bad leadership that YOU have been through, when they're under your care.  If you're a good leader...

Well said.

[mrmackc]

Training for sailors on our warships is being conducted at a good rate, my grandson was on the Halsey until he was sent stateside for classroom training which should get him another promotion.  Maybe it is like Drivers Ed. How to drive safely, but not how to avoid a drunk driver Maybe they need to have"Dodge Ball" training.

[survivalshop]

  Notice how the say it or its written ," the Navy Ship Collided with ( what ever )" , not the other way around .  The Navy Ship was T-Boned ! WTF

  But saying that , the US Navy Ship has the Best , not some of the best , but the best Equipment in the world !   Why didn't any of it work ?

 I want answers , I have Family in the Navy , I want to know if every one is safe , safe as should be on a US Naval Vessel .

Edited August 24, 2017 by survivalshop

[shepp]

Now "they were hacked"

[98Z5V]

18 hours ago, bubbas4570 said:

98,

Long story short, train them to replace yourself, ...

I always did that - and training wasn't "nice and easy."  AARs typically brought comments like, "We probably shouldn't have pushed it THAT hard" or "we almost had an incident in the training when THIS happened..."  Fuk you guys.  What are you gonna do when I'm the one that takes a bullet?  Huh?  You fuckers better react, and step up - you won't have a choice at that point...  It's outta my hands then, and it's ALL on you.  Do your jobs, and always do your jobs 2 levels UP...  Think ahead, you jackasses... 

Had a boat accident one time.  There's two ways to run the Zodiaks (RB-15s), mission dependent.  soft floors and 35hp engine, or hard floors and 55hp engine.  Well, shiit, my choice was always start lower (for a day) and work them up. Day 2 of the whole week was hard floors and the 55s.  Rip it.  When you only have 3 or 4 guys in a 55, that thing fucking RIPS!  Doing some night boat training, following close, follow-the-leader kinda shiit, one boat rips one way, one boat rips the other way, they meet in the middle - had a guy take a 1,200lb boat right in the face.  OUT.  COLD.  Ambulance ride.

The AAR on that one resulted in an informal investigation, because someone went to the hospital.  Results?  Train better, mark the starboard and port sides of the boats with chemlights, don't slow down the training pace, but incorporate more night-only safeties that you'll need, over operating in daylight.  Rger that, Sir, got it. ***Submits new boat request***

Another example - boat training again.  Going through the SOF Waterborne Infiltration Course.  That's a 3-week course that basically turns you into a Scout Swimmer on steroids.  When I went through it, we had a very, very unique opportunity - some specialized US Navy ships were in the area, and we spend almost the 3rd week on them, launching raids, recons, ship egress and ship infil, etc.  It was fucking badass.  Those ships traveled in pairs,and we had the USS Zephyr and USS Squall. 

We launch a night egress off those two ships, in Elliot Bay, WA.  Now,these things were still new, and under engine-breakin.  Couldn't go over 80% throttle. By design, they were supposed to go from a dead stop to 35 knots in a minute.  These bastards were going from that dead stop to WAY OVER 35 knots, at 80% throttle, in about 45 seconds.  Holy shat, those things were fast - and they threw a 12-foot wake behind them.  Well, we decided it was "wake training" in the Zods.  You attack a wake perpendicular - directly at 90 degrees.  Anything else is gonna fuk up your Zod, and everyone in it. We were catching some serious air, even with 9 heavy dudes, loaded down, in the Zods.  We rip off one wake, and the guy hugging the gunnel across from me turns his head, and he says "Man!  I didn't even feel that lan..."   WHAM!!!  We landed.  Pushed his nose off the side of his face, blood everywhere, he's out cold.  Dead stop in the water.  2 SF Medics were on the boat, and one controls the head while the other takes over vitals - he's having trouble breathing, and out fucking cold, twitching.  We get him back to one of those two ships, and haul ass straight for the Elliot Bay docks, ambulance already there.  The guy is having convulsions, jerking, but his head.neck is stabilized...  We cross him over to the ambulance, and...

The chief of the training says...  "he's got a broken neck.  He's fucked.  Never seen anyone WITHOUT a broken neck react like that.  You motherfuckers get back in your boats, don't dwell on it.  We have training to complete."

Cold as that.  Simple as that.  He was right, too.  Shiit happens. You can dwell on it, and it'll fuk with your own head.  Or, you can put it out of your mind and complete what you were assigned to complete.

It's a cold mentality to have to adapt in situations like that.  Train hard, train REAL, and train tough.  People are gonna get fucked up if you do that - that's risk management.  There are units in the Army that have a "Zero-RIsk" mentality.  I fucking HATED doing risk assessments in Leg-Land.  NO risk was acceptable.  NONE.  That's literally where the "Zero-Risk Mentality" moniker came from. Chickenshits derived that, chickenshit commanders that didn't want "their record marked."  SF-mentality was completely different. You need to train hard.  You need to PLAN hard.  You need to mitigate as much risk as you can, and be as safe as you can - but you need to train for meaning.  It has to accomplish something.  poop WILL happen, but you need to plan it well.    It's weird being somewhere, conducting training, where everything is categorized as "High RIsk Training" by "Regular Army" Standards. Nothing we did ever passed that checklist as "Low Risk" of "Moderate Risk."  You fill out that damn form everytime you submit training, and it always came up as "High Risk."  You live with it - that's what you do...

Then, you reappear, as if my magic, through branch reassignments, in some high-drag bulshiit unit, and try to plan some training.  Commanders in those units go fucking NUTS over your training plan...  Your "Risk Assessment Form" spells it all out for them, all your controls and pre-training - and they fucking FREAK. Took me quite awhile to beat those people down... 

If you train right, people can - CAN - get hurt.  That's just the way it is. You have to PLAN for that, and know that people really COULD get hurt doing this - it's your plan FOR THAT - people really COULD get fucked up doing this - that counts.   

Edited August 25, 2017 by 98Z5V

[bubbas4570]

We think alike, and that is what I  meant by that first line.

[jtallen83]

12 hours ago, 98Z5V said:

Then, you reappear, as if my magic, through branch reassignments, in some high-drag bulshiit unit, and try to plan some training.

That right there is what convinced me to get out! I never was involved with planning the training but it was very obvious if the training I got was worth a fuk or not, after leaving the 1-75th I never saw anything I considered good training, 24th ID and 8th ID. God forbid someone do something in the dark and not be lit up with chem lights, and be happy you got a hundred blank rounds to play laser tag with!