Stuck cases 300wsm,trouble shoot more or convert to 6.5

[andrewtac]

I bought a 300wsm AR10 from accuracy systems years ago.  It would not cycle, cases would stick and bolt would cycle (extractor slipped off of stuck cases). I sent it back, they said it had no issues (I still had the same issues when I got it back).  Several moves and deployments went by and I never sent it back to them again, my fault.  So about 3-4 years ago I tried messing with it again.  Shooting it, it would cycle maybe one, then cases would stick and bolt would cycle (extractor slipped off).  Usually would have to mortar or use a cleaning rod to get the spent cases out, same as before.  I might have had 3 boxes through this barrel.  So I bought a used known working barrel from someone, 300wsm again, and same issues.  I bought a adjustable block and tried adjusting.  I ended up with the same issues, stuck cases.  In both barrels it is as if the cases are over expanding and getting stuck.  I don't know if this a timing issue, over gas, etc.  Both Chambers are smooth, no rough spots.  Original barrel is rifle plus 2; used second hand barrel is rifle gas length   I checked tonight and the gas tube extends 1/2 way in the C, as shown on many pics on here.  I don't remember on the original barrel if it did.  One thing I found on here that I haven't tried is a soaking wet with oil bolt yet; and never did before.  I always had a thin coat of oil but never dripping wet.  I verified buffer is 5.2".  Made sure no gas leaks.  Extractor doesn't bind on the case when coming out.  On both of the barrels the spent brass didn't look overly budged or any cracks, scares or dents; just stuck in the chamber.  The Chambers don't seem tight either, fresh rounds drop in.  All loads factory, tried a few different ones but all factory.

What would cause cases to stick, two different barrels?  Is it a 300 wsm issue, to much pressure or pressure comes on to fast?  Any other trouble shooting to do?

 

The gun was bought to hunt with when I was younger and figured I needed the biggest hottest round I could get.  300wsm would be cool, but it has been a paper weight and running out of ideas.  My other thought is converting to a 6.5, with a can (this rifle.will.get a can either way at some point once it works).  It seems 6.5s work, and I'd just need new barrel and bolt.  Pretty much only whitetail and pigs: 6.5 would more than work.  Should I give up on the 300?

[shooterrex]

Do you have a single extractor spring? Sounds like the extractor isn't holding on to the case.

[unforgiven]

Hell no someone will come up with something. What is the recoil system is it all the same or combination of parts? 

[andrewtac]

Yeah, single spring with a ring and thing in the center of the spring. 

[andrewtac]

Standard stock with buffer, 5.2".  I measured the recoil spring about an inch short but being compressed 15+ years is probably why.

[jtallen83]

Weight on the buffer? Pictures of the extractor would help. 

[survivalshop]

Since you are using the same Bolt with two different Barrels , I would be looking at the Extractor & Spring first . 

You usually won't have a timing issue with a Rifle length ( or more ) Gas system , but an over Gassed system could give issues ( too large of Barrel Gas Port ? ) .

Did both Barrels Head Space OK ?

Photo's of spent Brass & Bolt components & Buffer system would be nice , including Buffer spring length & Coil count .

[andrewtac]

 I need to weigh the buffer

[RedRiverII]

Ammo type?

[andrewtac]

I'll check I had some power point and silver tip tried different weights of both I believe.  

 

Would the extractor slipping off cause stuck cases?  I assumed in both I had a gas issue as in over expansion of the case causing to much friction, case stuck and then extractor cannot hold.  I didn't think that the slipping of the extractor would cause a stuck case, maybe that has been the problem all along and never had enough tension.

[DNP]

Doesn’t @MikedaddyH have a 300WSM AR?  He’s got about 20 different calibers....  trying to call him into this one as he may have some experience with that. I hope to see the OP up and running reliable with it soon. 

[Sisco]

Accuracy Systems in essence sell Armalite Rifles. I do not know what level of modification they do on them. If none, then the Armalite lifetime warranty should be still valid. Did you send it to AS or Armalite last time? If AS, you may wish to contact Armalite to see if the warranty is valid and have them troubleshoot and fix it.

[andrewtac]

It is an eagle arms.  I did send it back to AS last time.  There were some mods to it.

[jtallen83]

Hard to see the hook on the extractor but nothing in the pictures jumps out to me as a bad extractor. I assume it would be an Armalite bolt? New extractor springs are cheap, might pay to replace it, maybe the buffer spring as well. When you say the case is stuck how stuck is it? Do you have to beat it out from the muzzle or will mortaring get it out? Just thinking out loud but if it is cycling to soon that could cause the extractor to slip off. If that’s the case a heavier buffer may help. Just poking in the dark as there isn’t much info out there on that cartridge in an AR-10.

[Sisco]

1 hour ago, andrewtac said:

It is an eagle arms.  I did send it back to AS last time.  There were some mods to it.

I would call Armalite anyway, just to see if they can or will help. All they can say is no. Eagle Arms is Armalite

[andrewtac]

I went today, bolt dripping wet.  I also pulled a donut off an ar15 bolt, so the extractor now has two donuts.  It shot three times and cycled.  First shot I had empty mag, bolt locked back. Next shot I had one in mag, cycled and fed!  Next cycled and fed (had two in mag this shot).  Then I got a jam, see pic below.  It did this once more and I say that the case neck had split this time so I quit.  These were 180 Winchester powermax I bought years ago.  All brass that ejected only went about two or three feet from; seemed like it almost just fell out.  It was probably 3 o'clock hard to tell as it barely came out.  

The bottom pictures are from today (the brass colored brass).  These all appear to have damage on the rim.  I suspect two donuts on the extractor is not allowing the extractor to slip and pulling really hard.  It seems to me that something is wrong beyond the extractor, cases dribbling out, damage to the rim where the extractor pulled them.  One of the case necks split.  Otherwise can't see damage.  Maybe old brass.

 

The other pics, silver brass, I believe are from the other barrel.  I can't see any damage.

 

I ordered a headspace gauge, at this point I need to rule this out, was told it was good before.  I ordered an adjustable gas block and new tube for my original barrel.  I also ordered some extra power extractor springs. I am going to try the original barrel again as that is how it came from AS.  I'll go with a super wet bolt.  

6.5 is getting closer to seeming like a better plan.

[jtallen83]

Nothing to do with the split case but I had the dribble problem on a build and an Armalite ejector spring cured it, long shot as I still think there is a timing issue. Split case would make me want to check headspace but then two different barrels with the same problem and having the maker check it would lead you to believe it wouldn't be headspace. Hang tight, smarter guys than me will be along.

[Sisco]

PM sent 

[98Z5V]

Buffer weight, buffer weight, buffer weight.  Toss in an Armalite EA1095 spring while you're at it, just so you know what spring you're using, confirmed.  That 5.2" buffer is gonna weight close to or right on 5.4oz.  That's cool for controlling a .308 AR BCG, running .308 Win ammo, but that .300 WSM is pushing more power.  You're rocking 500~600fps more from that WSM for the same projo weights as .308 Win loads.  You need more ass and mass to control that round pressure.  There's only one stop for this one, and it's Slash  - Clint Butler - at HeavyBuffers.com.  Call him up and tell him what's going on - he's got a buffer weight that will do it.

http://heavybuffers.com/

Edited June 12, 2019 by 98Z5V

[98Z5V]

From your first post, here's what i think is going on - that round has more speed and pressure than a .308 Win, and that thing is pushing so much gas that the bolt is trying to unlock too early, while the case is still expanded, before it has time to cool.  That's sticking cases.  The extractor can't hang onto that - and it's not the extractor's fault.  That BCG speed has to be incredible.  Weigh your BCG (or post the weight again, if I missed that).  You need to up the buffer weight and spring pressure, to try to slow that unlocking time down, let that brass cool enough, and gain reliable extraction.  You might even need an adjustable gas block - but that's not the sole answer.  The correct buffer weight and spring strength for that speed-demon is the first step. Playing with gas block screws and limiting gas pressure is for fine tuning for a specific load - not making gross, mass adjustments in basic rifle operation.

Edited June 12, 2019 by 98Z5V

[andrewtac]

This is the conclusion I came to years ago, extraction to soon.  I weighed my buffer, 5.3 oz.  I have on order a heavy buffer and spring.  I did put the old barrel back in last night and will go back today at some point and try it.  

[andrewtac]

The guy I bought the second barrel from had a crazy long gas tube (didn't come with the barrel).  He made it I think, it looked around the barrel several times, effectively increasing the length of the tube, and delaying the gas charge.  Hopefully the spring and buffer slow it down.  Probably the last part I throw at it. 

[andrewtac]

Well I went today.  Two rounds off.  Both left cases inside the receiver, not even ejecting.  One the second round, it bent the bolt catch, stuck open. I had to take the rifle apart to get the bolt to close.  And in the process I lost the plunger.  I think I am done.  Might start a new thread later for a 6.5 convert with known working combo

[Albroswift]

Just read through your thread, 2 things jump out.

Headspace and timing 

As you tried 2 different barrels, could it be the bolt causing the headspace issue? I'm relatively new to AR Platforms but been reloading since before the Clinton Administration and stuck cases and headspace issues transcend platforms 

I would be curious to try one of the spent rounds in a case gauge.  May need to cut the neck off or neck only resize the brass to get it to fit. 

if the bolt starts moving back without the resistance of the shell, possibly could pick up enough speed to bend the bolt catch on the way back .

Did you ever replace the extractor,  or just the spring?

 

[survivalshop]

If this is a Armalite factory built Rifle , I would contact them & see if they will look at it under warranty . 

What I see is , from what I have read , the AR 10 Rifle Buffer Spring has 35 coils & yours seems to have 45 coils , if my counting is correct & Spring seems short according to the spec's I have read .

Split cases are not unusual with some of the wildcat cartridges , older ammo may be an issue also .Normally when you are splitting case necks on new ammo , there is a Chamber or ammo issue .

Have to start at the basic's , Head Space , Chamber clean & clear of Reamer marks , Barrels gas port size ( drill Bits work well as gages ) It may be the photo , but it looks like there is a good bit of wear on the Upper Receiver where the Carrier Key is riding at the top of the Upper Receivers Channel ?