Home defense shotgun

[Madhouse]

Roger that, great information, appreciate it.  And your assumption is right - no kids in the house, never will be.

[edgecrusher]

well i do have a 5 year old, and she has been well versed as best as possible about gun safety so far. i have two pit bulls as an early warning system, and have been thinking of a benelli super nova as my first shot gun for home defense. my glock is near the bed, but let's face it, if they are willing to pass the dogs they will be more than will to take two to the chest.

[Matt.Cross]

well i do have a 5 year old, and she has been well versed as best as possible about gun safety so far. i have two pit bulls as an early warning system, and have been thinking of a benelli super nova as my first shot gun for home defense. my glock is near the bed, but let's face it, if they are willing to pass the dogs they will be more than will to take two to the chest.

That's a good principle, my little guy is only 2 so he's still a bit young to understand, but when he demonstrates good enough comprehension, I will begin his gun safety indoctrination. My dad taught me from as early as I can remember, and I want my kid to be able to say he doesn't remember ever NOT knowing how to safely handle weapons.

I remember being just a tiny little fella looking wide-eyed into gun display cases in gun stores when I was little, and the clerks would always cajole my dad into letting me hold whatever I was looking at. I would always make a show of pointing it in a safe direction first, and only then check it out. Dad always got an approving look from the clerk, with an 'atta boy' wink for the little guy practicing gun safety.

Anyways, you guys have got me thinking about what kind of supplies are practical to stock up on.

[SWshooter]

You can have too little ammo, but you can't have too much ammo.

[hobbesgunner]

308reloaded reminded me of incident near here last summer. Man broke into an old immigrant couples home and owner shot him twice as he was coming through bathroom window,one in the belly and one in the "groan" :o. Then sets with guy until cops, ambulance shows. Reporter asked him if he was frightened by incident. He replied, no, as a young man in the Ukraine he fought the Germans and the Russians, what's to be frightened of here......probably ruined the crooks love life..prison love life that is <laughs>

[survivalshop]

Well ok then...

First, I think that shotguns are silly for home defense weapons. There's a reason that LE is moving away from shotguns to patrol rifles, but that's an entirely different thread.

Your question is whether or not a shotgun should be kept with a shell chambered or not. You didn't specify whether or not there were children or other mitigating factors so I'm going to proceed as if there are not. If I'm wrong, adjust accordingly.

We as a gun owning society are quick to tell the anti-gun folks that: "its the person, not the weapon, the weapon is simply an inanimate object" and that's a true statement. I personally have loaded guns all over my house, generally a couple of rifles, several pistols, etc. Between a LE wife and my work, its sort of how things are around here. In all the years my house has been like this, none of those weapons have magically gone off. If the wife and I consistently obey the first of the universal rules of gun handling: "Treat all weapons as if they are loaded", I don't expect this safety record will change any time soon.

Anyhow, in my mind, if a weapons stated purpose is to be used in a self-defense role, then it needs to be instantly ready to perform in that function, with the fewest number of steps possible. You cannot predict the amount of time that you will have to respond, the way that you will physiologically react or the state of your assailant. Reducing the number of steps that you have to perform to use the weapon is simply smart business. Larry Vickers says that you'll perform at about 60% of your BEST when under stress. So reducing the actions that you have to take while under life or death stress strikes me as a wise move. But that's just me.

As for relying on the mythical 'shotgun racking sound' to deconflict the situation is foolhardy at best. An opponent may be suffering from adrenaline induced auditory exclusion (deafness) and might not even hear your actions. My take has always been that if its time to deploy that weapon, then the time for negotiations and intimidation is past. Don't rely on that aspect, even in passing.

Kelly

See ,that didn't hurt, did it ?

As far as I'm concerned ,we want input from all here , as long as your not insulting , alls good .

I like to hear what others think , its another way to learn .

[Matt.Cross]

See ,that didn't hurt, did it ?

As far as I'm concerned ,we want input from all here , as long as your not insulting , alls good .

I like to hear what others think , its another way to learn .

Speak for yourself, I've been butthurt for the last 2 days because of his reply.  <laughs> <lmao>

;)

Totally just kidding, I thought KellyTTE's reply was good stuff.

[KellyTTE]

Speak for yourself, I've been butthurt for the last 2 days because of his reply. 

Yeah but you're not a mod, so I didn't care. ;)

Totally just kidding, I thought KellyTTE's reply was good stuff.

Well thanks. :)

Kelly

[hobbesgunner]

Well concealed (momma doesn't even know its there)Glock full of Hornady TAP FPD at arms length from bed. AR carbine, with mag full of 75gr.Hornady next to it ,about 5 seconds away. In case the sh-t gets crazy....kinda got off topic on first post..there is an 1100 Rem. next to AR if necessary.

[5pointstar]

I'm late chiming in here, but I'm also new.

Kelly I thought was a little off here in stating that Law Enforcement was getting away from the shotgun. Yes the patrol rifle has been added to a LEO's armament but only as an augmentation and has been improperly deployed in certain cercumstaces by many departments. The shotgun is by far a more versitile and effective weapon in more situations inside about 25 yards than the Patrol Rifle and its only real weaknes is training. Most ingagements are going to be under 10 feet but with a properly setup shotgun you could effectively and accurately put down a target at 100 yards with slugs and a smoothbore.

I got off topic, I know.

Personally, after years of debating on this very topic I have settled on this ammunition configuation and it's state of readiness. Nothing in the chamber, all 00 buck in the magazine tube, and I keep the shotgun with the safety off and slide foward with the trigger already depressed. I carry a side saddle with 3 slugs and 3 00buck. The Federal 00 buck with flight control wads pattern best in my shotgun, all center mass still at 20 yards. If I should need slugs I would combat load them. I only keep the chamber empty should I have to combat load a slug at the begining.

My weapons are all in my safe except a handgun on my person at all times, should I need more than a pistol my shotgun is the first weapon available when I open my safe.

[Madhouse]

Good post 5point, and welcome to the forum!

[bgc]

Everything’s in the safe. I don’t need a weapon for home defense… The SOB that wakes her up, is in for more suffering than I could ever inflict with a shotgun, rifle, or pistol.

I did this once, now if I’m late, I sleep in the car…..still have a limp….. :o

[BR-549]

Everything’s in the safe. I don’t need a weapon for home defense… The SOB that wakes her up, is in for more suffering than I could ever inflict with a shotgun, rifle, or pistol.

I did this once, now if I’m late, I sleep in the car…..still have a limp….. :o

Women are like that at times!  <laughs>

[jon308]

I keep xd40 at arm length, 100# Rott in kennel next to bed, 7 shot shotgun at end of bed first load bird shot then alternating 00 and slugs then to safe with ar loaded with light & laser behind that lr308 loaded with scope and laser, I sleep just fine. Oh and machete at side rail of bed

[planeflyer21]

Don't know how I missed this thread.

I'm not a big proponent of shotguns for home protection in any densely populated areas.  Pistols with the new genre of personal protection ammunition is, IMO, ideal for urban/densely populated 'hoods.  Make sure you can hit your target under stress.

The myths that abound about shotguns and shotgunnery border on ridiculous.

As Kelly already stated, to rely on the sound scaring off a naked dude on meth who already pulled off his own penis, is asking a bit much.

Completely irksome is the "Shotguns don't have to be aimed, just point it in their general direction and the targets torso magically separates from their hips."  Just remember when that single unaccounted for 00 pellet strikes your neighbor's sleeping kid in their room vegitizing them for life, you own it.  For life.  Enjoy the endless lawsuits, garnered wages, and public notoriety.

There was a shootout locally a couple of decades ago.  Bad guy in a crop field with a .30-06 pump, officers with shotguns and handguns.  Shotguns were issued with buckshot.  From what I understand it is somewhat disheartening to watch your shot roll up to the general area where the bad guy is shooting from at you. (Perp was hit by the officer shooting the handgun, about 150 yard shot).  My buddy carried only slugs after that.

If you live rural, have at it...but it is going to be loaded like we did at the prison, minus the birdshot.  Buck, buck, buck, slug, slug, slug, slug.

That is if I don't get the rifle to begin with.

Jon

[unforgiven]

Oh and machete at side rail of bed      <thumbsup>  9mm then get ot the box for more goodies. :)

[Tripledeuce]

  One night, about midnight, I was working late at he gunshop.  Heard a noise outside.

  Went out, .45 on my hip, shotgun in my hands.  Woman on the ground, big guy standing over her.

    Whats going on, I yelled.

      None of your business was yelled back, and the shadow started toward me.

    I racked the shotgun, and hands went in the air.

    Don't shoot him, yelled the woman, he's my brother.

    Every one but me jumped in the car at the curb, and away they went.

    The sheriff showed up about 45 minutes later, and wanted to know what was going on.

  I had called 911 befor I went out to find out what was happining.

  True story

    Terry

[unforgiven]

45 min. later? Good thing you were prepared ;).And not a knock on L.E.O. but they can't be everywhere all the time.Rene

[Tripledeuce]

    Your right, Rene.

    Thats why I  have a permit, and carry.

    When we moved to Durango, 25 years ago, I hung my ;45 in the safe, and it stayed there for almost 24 years.

    But, Things change.  And my .45 has come out of retirement, and I'v put almost 5,000  rounds  through it, getting re -aquantied.LOL!!

    Terry

[unforgiven]

I hear you brother Terry, I need to burn in that Sig it handles geat and you got to love those big big fukkin holes. <thumbsup> <lmao>

[SPBCTS]

I am retired LEO, when I was leaving we were supplementing the 870 with the patrol rifle, not eliminating the shotgun. There is no reason to do so. Never too many tools in the toolbox.

I live in the sticks and worked in town. When I was working my wife had an 1100 at her disposal. I load 00 buck in the tube. The speedfeed stock has slugs. The weapon is stored action open. If she wants a slug first she can combat load one from the stock. There was a chance she would encounter a bear or mountain lion as well as the human threat. The 1100 has a flashlight on it and she has been trained with it. It is, and always has been stored out of reach and out of sight for any child. I worked a lot of nights, for a lot of years. When working the Task Force I was sometimes gone overnight.

Having loaded weapons in my home is simply a way of life. I've sent too many people to prison and been involved in too many critical incidents to assume that no one out there hates me.

In fact, I know the opposite to be true, LOL.

My sons were taught early to respect firearms. We have acreage and can shoot here, and we do. Teach them respect, an understanding of what can happen...let them see you skin a buck or prep a bird for the pot...

There are so many environmental variables involved in making these types of choices, let alone the children variable and frankly the personal variable. Some people are just not comfy with a shotgun. Some people can't make a .40 cal SA/DA function due to weak wrist issues.

In my situation, the shotgun is the one of the right weapons to have available.

So, it is.

I also keep a loaded pistol available.

Whatever you decide is right for your home, environment and other factors, train like crazy with it. Train weak hand. Train strong hand. Train in the dark. Train, train, train.

There is a 100% probability that you will revert to training under stress. 100%. It is proven in every LEO shooting.

So train.

Train your body and your mind. Both must be in sync if you want to be as effective as possible.

If someone in your home isn't comfortable with a shotgun, get them something else. I know of a number of people who struggle like heck to cycle a pump action shotgun under stress. Short-stroking, forgetting to reload at all, etc. is common under stress and if you can't train that out of them it is a good indicator that they are not comfortable with that weapon.

If that is the case take them to another weapon.

It is also pointless to put a .45 automatic in the hand of someone who physically cannot control it. If they can't control it they can't hit with it.

If they can control a 9mm and hit with it then the 9mm is far and away the better choice for that person. I have seen way too many men scaring the heck out of their petite little wives trying to force them to "learn" to work a 1911 style .45.

The guy gets mad, the woman gets mad because she is trying like crazy but can't handle the buck of the pistol. (Not just on women here, I know men that can't hit with them either but carry them cause of the "cool" factor.)

Put a 9mm Sig 229 in her hand and within an hour she is smiling and punching the lights out of the bull.

Sorry for the rant, folks. This stuff is near and dear to my heart after all those years...

[unforgiven]

Great thread brother,you hit the nail right on the head <thumbsup>.I got pistol ready to get at the long guns.I like my 590A.I have gotten so wraped up in ARs that I have negleted my shotty thanks for the reminder.Next range day shotty goes for a ride. ;)

[planeflyer21]

Whatever you decide is right for your home, environment and other factors, train like crazy with it. Train weak hand. Train strong hand. Train in the dark. Train, train, train.

There is a 100% probability that you will revert to training under stress. 100%. It is proven in every LEO shooting.

So train.

Train your body and your mind. Both must be in sync if you want to be as effective as possible.

If someone in your home isn't comfortable with a shotgun, get them something else. I know of a number of people who struggle like heck to cycle a pump action shotgun under stress. Short-stroking, forgetting to reload at all, etc. is common under stress and if you can't train that out of them it is a good indicator that they are not comfortable with that weapon.

If that is the case take them to another weapon.

It is also pointless to put a .45 automatic in the hand of someone who physically cannot control it. If they can't control it they can't hit with it.

If they can control a 9mm and hit with it then the 9mm is far and away the better choice for that person. I have seen way too many men scaring the heck out of their petite little wives trying to force them to "learn" to work a 1911 style .45.

The guy gets mad, the woman gets mad because she is trying like crazy but can't handle the buck of the pistol. (Not just on women here, I know men that can't hit with them either but carry them cause of the "cool" factor.)

Put a 9mm Sig 229 in her hand and within an hour she is smiling and punching the lights out of the bull.

Sorry for the rant, folks. This stuff is near and dear to my heart after all those years...

+1,000,000 on the training!!!  The pervasive belief is that you learned it once, no need for training, just wait and the battle-fairy dust that was sprinkled on you will take effect.

Right-hand, left-hand, standing, sitting, squatting, odd angles, set up malfunctions and clear them, run scenarios.

Kudos SPBCTS on identifying that not everyone needs the same firearm in the same caliber.  I've had students with rheumatoid arthritis, MS, paraplegics.  Some had issues with a large 9mm semi-auto, couldn't pull the trigger on any D/A revolver, certainly couldn't do much with any center-fire of a blowback style.

I've had to separate married couples in classes.  Often times the wife will whisper questions to the husband, the answers for which benefit everyone, and on the range husbands have a tendency to treat wives like ignorant dipwads...not good when she's learning to shoot.

For what it's worth, one woman in a wheel chair getting her CCW permit thought that since she could hide it, she may as well get a 6" barrelled revolver.  <thumbsup>

Jon

[SPBCTS]

One of my favorite "lines" that I used at the end of every range day I put on is as follows.

You guys are welcome to steal it, I stole it too, many years ago.

"What we have learned and worked on today is not like riding a bicycle. Many of you haven't been on a bicycle in 20 years, but if I put one in front of you you could ride it.

Shooting is a very perishable skill. Muscle memory combined with a link to a mind engaged in the active awareness concept we have taught you.

In 6 months if you are put in a position to use these skills and haven't practiced between now and then you won't be as sharp. You might not be able to clear a stovepipe without stopping to think about it. Your mind and body may not be connected as tightly as you swing to acquire a target.

If you stop to think about it on the bicycle you fall down.

If you stop to think about it in a critical incident, you might fall down forever."

[98Z5V]

If you stop to think about it on the bicycle you fall down.

If you stop to think about it in a critical incident, you might fall down forever."

Great analogy.  <thumbsup>