beachmaster Posted January 14, 2014 Report Share Posted January 14, 2014 Hey, im a new guy, and I have been reading alot about buffer springs and buffers today because, you guessed it, I needed them. But while I was looking at some heavy buffers and springs that were a little more expensive that I thought they should be, I realized they advertised that it cured overgassed rifles. My question is, if you want to cure an overgassed rifle, wouldn't it be smarter to purchase a nice adjustable gas block instead? It seems to me that a heavy buffer and spring to cure an over gassed rifle is like putting a bandaid on your elbow for a bruised knee. Shouldn't you insteadget an adjustable gas block to have a properly gassed rifle? Seems to me that would fix the overgassed issue, make the rifle run cleaner, reduce recoil, and minimize abuse all at once. In fact, it seems feasible to go with a jp lightweight bcg, and a light we buffer and spring with an adjustable gas block for minimum recoil and weight. What are your thoughts? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Matt.Cross Posted January 14, 2014 Report Share Posted January 14, 2014 Hey, im a new guy, and I have been reading alot about buffer springs and buffers today because, you guessed it, I needed them. But while I was looking at some heavy buffers and springs that were a little more expensive that I thought they should be, I realized they advertised that it cured overgassed rifles. My question is, if you want to cure an overgassed rifle, wouldn't it be smarter to purchase a nice adjustable gas block instead? It seems to me that a heavy buffer and spring to cure an over gassed rifle is like putting a bandaid on your elbow for a bruised knee. Shouldn't you insteadget an adjustable gas block to have a properly gassed rifle? Seems to me that would fix the overgassed issue, make the rifle run cleaner, reduce recoil, and minimize abuse all at once. In fact, it seems feasible to go with a jp lightweight bcg, and a light we buffer and spring with an adjustable gas block for minimum recoil and weight. What are your thoughts? My thoughts on this: An adjustable gas block is fantastic, as long as your handguard will accommodate it. Having to replace your FFHG to accommodate your adjustable gas block to fix overgassing comes out to be a lot more expensive than just dropping in a heavier buffer and appropriate spring. I'm not trying to talk you out of buying an adjustable gas block, but the decision to buy a heavy buffer has a lot of merit, for many more reasons than even what I've just mentioned. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
EasyEJL Posted January 14, 2014 Report Share Posted January 14, 2014 I have to wonder if a lighter BCG wouldn't increase recoil myself. Part of what absorbs the recoil is the time it takes to accelerate the bolt backwards, and with a lighter bolt it would be faster. Compare the weight of a BCG vs a buffer :) and going a couple ounces higher on the buffer has a pretty major effect on the recoil Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
392heminut Posted January 14, 2014 Report Share Posted January 14, 2014 The 3 Gunners go with lighter BCG's and buffers and use an adjustable gas block to tune the rifle and reduce recoil. It seems to work for them. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
washguy Posted January 14, 2014 Report Share Posted January 14, 2014 Beach in your other thread you have going....you got buffer tube,buffer,detent,spring problemos so being me I always go back to square one.....a well built ar308 should work with a car 308 spring and car 308 buffer and car buffer tube in your piece....no fancy stuff required....dont be spending big bucks until you sort out your probs first.....dont add variables to the equation right now........you dont know right now if your undergassed overgassed......or just passing gas....lol :) Wash Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
beachmaster Posted January 14, 2014 Author Report Share Posted January 14, 2014 Haha I agree that I need to shoot and tune my rifle before changing anything. I am just trying to figure things out is all. I think recoil is going to be simple math. Maybe a bit more complicated that velocity x mass, but if you were to tune a rifle down on gas, with a lighter bolt setup, you have the same lock speed (less gas) and lower weight = less recoil. Again, I could be way off. Im not saying its best for anyone. And I wont be upgrading my gas block for a good little while unless I have issues with mine. Clearly I have my own mechanical issues to work on right now. Hopefully I will have bandaided what I have so I can start learning what my rifle likes and is doing. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Robocop1051 Posted January 14, 2014 Report Share Posted January 14, 2014 The main issue with the adj GB is that once you pick a load that works with the system, you may be stuck with that load. Not all rounds are created equal. If you tune it shooting Remington Premier, and then switch over to some NATO surplus stuff to plink, you may find yourself adjusting back and forth trying to get back to normal function. Also, as your rifle gets dirty and settles in, you'll have to adjust again for the micro allowances needed for cycling. If you have to take you're rifle apart every time you want to do this, the extra cost of the buffer system begins to look VERY appealing. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jgun Posted January 14, 2014 Report Share Posted January 14, 2014 As mentioned above, the light BCG and adjustable gas is good for comp guns. I did a comp 300BLK like that. depending on what you want the gun to do it may work for you. Lighter BCG and lighter gas impulse "should" give you less recoil, but the gun will need to be kept clean and well lubed or it will have reliability problems, not good if you need it for real world self defense. And as also mentioned above, the gun will become much more ammo sensitive. If you were to open up the gas to shoot lighter loads, it will be overgassed with heavier. I had my 300 out today, trying some new powder VV N110, and it wouldn't cycle. If I adjust it for those it will be way over gassed with my hot LIL GUN loads. There's a lot to be said for using a heavier BCG to assist chambering. If you want to try an adjustable GB, I think the ones with defined settings like the switch block, may be better than the screw adjustables like mine. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Robocop1051 Posted January 14, 2014 Report Share Posted January 14, 2014 Switch blocks are for suppressors. You only have 3 settings; normal firing, suppressed firing, and single fire. It's not really that good at removing felt recoil. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bubbasks Posted January 14, 2014 Report Share Posted January 14, 2014 I set mine to run on lower grade ammo. I could turn it down on my heavy loads but no reason. Thing feels like a 223 already. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
98Z5V Posted January 14, 2014 Report Share Posted January 14, 2014 The main issue with the adj GB is that once you pick a load that works with the system, you may be stuck with that load. Not all rounds are created equal. If you tune it shooting Remington Premier, and then switch over to some NATO surplus stuff to plink, you may find yourself adjusting back and forth trying to get back to normal function. Also, as your rifle gets dirty and settles in, you'll have to adjust again for the micro allowances needed for cycling. If you have to take you're rifle apart every time you want to do this, the extra cost of the buffer system begins to look VERY appealing. This. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
beachmaster Posted January 14, 2014 Author Report Share Posted January 14, 2014 Well, what about the syrac route? It has click adjustments that stay in place, you adjust it 2 clicks past what you need for your lightest ammo, and it will be a overgassed for heavier stuff, but not as bad as full open. J guess the greatest benefit to it would be the lightweight bcg and buffer assembly, because you could turn the gas down enough to be reliable with any ammo always, but have less reciprocating mass... I am just going to have to wait until I have ALOT more cash, probably buy another dedicated Ar 308, and let you guys know lol until then I guess all I am doing is skipping stones. I appreciate the info though. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
shibiwan Posted January 14, 2014 Report Share Posted January 14, 2014 The main issue with the adj GB is that once you pick a load that works with the system, you may be stuck with that load. Not all rounds are created equal. If you tune it shooting Remington Premier, and then switch over to some NATO surplus stuff to plink, you may find yourself adjusting back and forth trying to get back to normal function. Also, as your rifle gets dirty and settles in, you'll have to adjust again for the micro allowances needed for cycling. If you have to take you're rifle apart every time you want to do this, the extra cost of the buffer system begins to look VERY appealing. Well, I found similar issues with my DIY (super) heavy buffer on my fixed GB rifle. There was some underpowered ammo like Rem Premier that didn't cycle properly and I had to fine-tune the weights to work. That aside, the heavy buffer option is probably the best option. Being overgassed gives you some wiggle room for different ammo loads so you don't end up spending more time futzing with the adjustable gas block instead of having fun shooting. There is a significant recoil reduction with a heavy buffer, another plus for the heavy buffer. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jgun Posted January 14, 2014 Report Share Posted January 14, 2014 As robocop ponted out, the Switchblock was desinged to allow rapidly switching between suppressed and unsupressed operation, so it probably wouldn't serve the op's purpose, the point I was trying to make was that if you went so far as to use a screw adjustable gas bloc to fine tune your whole rifle for minimum cycling induced recoil impulse, you are going to have just enough gas to cycle the action under ideal conditions with that specidic load, just as mine is set up, but if you were to use a gas block, with specific repeatable settings, you would be able to quickly swtich to a setting that you knew would work with a heavier load. without having to count turns of an allen screw. I would imagine that the Syrac would fit the aplication, and the Govnah might work as well. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
D.R.D. Posted January 14, 2014 Report Share Posted January 14, 2014 It seems that getting a heavy buffer, normal weight BCG, AND having an adjustable gas block would give you the best options (along with switching between muzzle brake and suppressor), no? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rsquared Posted January 14, 2014 Report Share Posted January 14, 2014 I run adjustable blocks (mainly for running suppressed), heavy buffers and standard BCG's on many of my rifles. Along with the AAC brakes or comps, none of them "beat you up" with recoil. In fact, they run as smooth as my 556 rifles. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mineralman55 Posted January 29, 2014 Report Share Posted January 29, 2014 Thought I'd add another datapoint to this discussion. With my SI 308 build there's nothing terribly fancy about it. It has a standard weight BCG, standard DPMS buffer, standard DPMS recoil spring, Syrac adjustable gas block and a Griffin Armaments compensator. It is the easiest, most pleasant shooting rifle I have. It has less recoil than a 5.56 AR15 heavy barrel.While setting up the rifle I adjusted the GB thru its full range of settings. I didn't notice a whole lot of difference in the recoil regardless of the setting (although it did change the ejection patter of the empty cases.) I can only conclude that the majority of my recoil reduction is due to the compensator. Just something to consider. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
washguy Posted January 29, 2014 Report Share Posted January 29, 2014 "Thought I'd add another datapoint to this discussion. With my SI 308 build there's nothing terribly fancy about it. It has a standard weight BCG, standard DPMS buffer, standard DPMS recoil spring" Like Mineral said. I think..this is where a lot of Newbies go wrong on their builds...build it with the standard buffer tube,buffer,spring....makes a great starting point and a soft shooting rifle and a starting point for sorting out a new piece......Then one can play around with springs and buffers . only put a tubbs spring in one of mine just to see what it would do :) Wash Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
D.R.D. Posted January 29, 2014 Report Share Posted January 29, 2014 Good point, wash Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
blue109 Posted January 29, 2014 Report Share Posted January 29, 2014 Agree. My middy 18" has factory everything and a spikes comp. Runs fantastic. Recoil is just fine. I don't plan to swap out any of those parts. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
98Z5V Posted January 30, 2014 Report Share Posted January 30, 2014 It seems that getting a heavy buffer, normal weight BCG, AND having an adjustable gas block would give you the best options (along with switching between muzzle brake and suppressor), no? My favorite way to explain this is... Don't complicate $hit with complicated $hit. Build your rifle simple, and run it. If it won't run, find out why and fix that issue. If you don't like the recoil, you can do a few things (add a heavy buffer, go shoot a 300 Win Mag so you get used to the recoil, etc.). "Complicated $hit" is why I hate hydraulic buffers - what the hell is the reason for all that $hit in the butt of your rifle, when millions of people can make a real buffer run just fine?... It's just one more thing that can go wrong, and probably will when you most need your rifle. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
shibiwan Posted January 30, 2014 Report Share Posted January 30, 2014 ^^ Well said. That's just more things to break. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mineralman55 Posted January 30, 2014 Report Share Posted January 30, 2014 Build your rifle simple, and run it. If it won't run, find out why and fix that issue. For new builders, this is perfect advice. KISS (Keep It Simple, Stupid). I think Mr. Stoner got the design right, so I'm not going to second guess him. My own experience says this is the way to go for newbies. Experienced builders know how to experiment. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
survivalshop Posted January 30, 2014 Report Share Posted January 30, 2014 I run STD DPMS buffers & springs in my 308AR's . I do have a Superior Springs (Tubb's ) flate wire spring in my 16" , but was experimenting with different thing to fix a feeding problem that had nothing to do with the rifle , it was the PMag's , that will not work in this CMMG lower /w SI Defense upper , I know I keep bringing this up , but it goes to show you , a problem may have nothing to do with the build . I kept the Tubb's spring in because I like it , has reduced recoil & the brass just drops in the same place & easy pick up . Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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