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Magwa

ATF changes rules on lenght of ar pistols

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I hate to say it, but I saw this coming a long time ago. 

Time for all those pistols to get equipped with A2 length receiver extension.

ps. I have A5 mil spec receiver extensions for sale soon too. 

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Let me see if I understand this.  This is an AR Pistol. Its legal as is, because its a pistol. If I add a fore grip, it becomes a NFA item, because it is meant to be fired with 2 hands.

 

image.png.35d53d4dc98a434b0ee627c5b203e2f8.png

 

 

This pistol is also GTG because it has a brace, not a stock.

image.png.5e32c164eb6779ab1f04f4ea8db2e4d7.png

 

This pistol now has become a NFA item because it has a "grip" on the rail. That means it's meant to be fired with 2 hands, so it no longer a pistol.

image.png.79f84740aba4c04df806a9f67d34279d.png

 

 

This pistol has a folding brace, but no vertical fore grip, so its still GTG.

image.thumb.png.e02ac60da8e77cd7e1a9b5a3753b72c1.png

 

I can't find a picture of the above with a fore grip. But if I add a fore grip to the above, it becomes a AOW, and NFA item.

 

Are my assumptions correct?

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17 minutes ago, SimonSays said:

This pistol now has become a NFA item because it has a "grip" on the rail. That means it's meant to be fired with 2 hands, so it no longer a pistol.

image.png.79f84740aba4c04df806a9f67d34279d.png

 

Are my assumptions correct?

On the others, correct.  On this one, incorrect.  That forward grip is NOT a vertical grip.  Only vertical grips are specifically mentioned in the actual terminology concerning AR pistol construction.  Angled foregrips have been Good-To-Go for years, since they came out.

Now, as soon as some dipshiit writes the ATF a letter and asks for determination, that could change.  As long as people leave the sleeping dog lie, angled foregrips are perfectly legal on AR pistols. 

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Huh, I responded before I watched the video, but after I'd read the comments here.  Just watched the video...

Now, this is all in response to something I stated up there ^^^.  This is an individual response to some dipshiit that wrote them a letter.  This affects 3 things, the way I listened to the reading of the letter:

1.  Vertical pistol grips.  Why would someone include that in a letter, when it's been written that way for so long?  Why ask for a "determination" on that?  Makes no sense to even ask them if you can do something that's already written on, and decided on, and it actually written into the laws already (notice, I'm differentiating on "law" versus "determination" there)...

2.  AR Pistols that you can actually "adjust" the brace position on, i.e., SBA3, GHW Tailhook mod 2...   If you can adjust the length, you can only count the OAL with it in the collapsed position.  STUPID question to ask them to "determine."  

3. Folding adaptors.  Great WAY STUPID QUESTION TO ASK!  Why ask them about that, and bring that into the "determination letter?!!?"   Now, according to that letter, if you have a folding adaptor on your pistol, you must FOLD IT and make an OAL measurement...   :bitchslap:

Now, since this was written as a response to an individual (that wrote to them and asked for "clarification"}, that's a good thing.  Those types of letters, we've been cautioned and cautioned for a decade now - those letters aren't a blanket statement or a ruling - and certainly not a law - for everybody...   That is a response to an individual, from ATF Firearms Technology Branch, TO that individual. 

No need for everyone to get worried.   Yet.  

Edited by 98Z5V

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9 minutes ago, 98Z5V said:

Now, since this was written as a response to an individual (that wrote to them and asked for "clarification"}, that's a good thing.  Those types of letters, we've been cautioned and cautioned for a decade now - those letters aren't a blanket statement or a ruling - and certainly not a law - for everybody...   That is a response to an individual, from ATF Firearms Technology Branch, TO that individual. 

Yep, some bureaucrat responding in a manner that will please his boss. He gets transferred in a year and the next guy in the slot responds with more and different minutia. 

If you hear POTUS mention it then it is time to "get worried" and start responding. It is the low hanging fruit for the anti's, similar to bumpstocks there are many that will not care and see it as a sensible compromise to outlaw AR pistols altogether. I might just start collecting some $200 stamps and hold on to them a little longer......................

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I got rid of my pistol because it didnt really serve any purpose for me. Ill probably build another just as someplace to legally store my shorty upper in anticipation of the boogaloo. 

 

FuckATF. 

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so asked same question o another site. My ar pistol is 27  1/2 from back of mounted brace to end of flash hider. I also have an angled grip. Is this legal?

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1 hour ago, blue109 said:

I got rid of my pistol because it didnt really serve any purpose for me. Ill probably build another just as someplace to legally store my shorty upper in anticipation of the boogaloo. 

 

FuckATF. 

AR Pistols are my goto when the zombies attack! 

Screenshot_20190701-104432_Google.thumb.jpg.a1ced91fd7e666c9c959473dd367a147.jpg

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2 hours ago, blue109 said:

Ill probably build another just as someplace to legally store my shorty upper in anticipation of the boogaloo. 

CDNN has those P716 barrels for $49.99 right now, just posted a link in the sales section :thumbup::hornet:

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Bulk trash pick up is Monday.....should I put the new pistol/whatever in a box for the trash guys or just pitch it into the tree limbs on the curb?   :bitchslap:  Wash

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3 hours ago, painterman said:

so asked same question o another site. My ar pistol is 27  1/2 from back of mounted brace to end of flash hider. I also have an angled grip. Is this legal?

As the law is written, right now, that is perfectly, 100% legal, in the eyes of the BATFE.  Your state and local laws might be different, depends on where you live.

You install a Vertical Pistol Grip on that thing, and you just created an unregistered AOW - but your angled grip is perfectly fine.

These are a No-Go on an AR Pistol build:

MAG412BLK_00.jpg

weapon-accessories-usgi-knights-armament

 

^^^  Those, on an AR Pistol build, turn your (same) gun into an AOW. For an AOW, you need to pay your $5 tax stamp, and get approved, before you can "build" it...

Edited by 98Z5V

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10 hours ago, washguy said:

Bulk trash pick up is Monday.....should I put the new pistol/whatever in a box for the trash guys or just pitch it into the tree limbs on the curb?   :bitchslap:  Wash

Go ahead, brother!  Some enterprising young criminal will pick them up, and build whateverthefuck he wants with it, 'cause he don't giveashit about any gun laws that he doesn't even know about!!!...   :lmao:   For real. They don't care what laws, rules, whatever are on the books... They do what they want anyway...

Gun Laws only affect the law-abiding citizens.  They don't affect criminals, in the least. 

If any of these recent "ATF Determination Letters" actually get into some kind of "law," it doesn't affect me in the least in my state.  Not if I kep my firearms in MY state, and don't go out of State boundaries.  A long time ago, in AZ, it was passed into State law that no more Federal Gun Laws would affect this state.  All the ones before, are vaild - all the federal gun laws in the future, after passage of that bill, do not pertain to this state, inside this state.

You like your bump-stock?  Move here.

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4 hours ago, 98Z5V said:

A long time ago, in AZ, it was passed into State law that no more Federal Gun Laws would affect this state.  All the ones before, are vaild - all the federal gun laws in the future, after passage of that bill, do not pertain to this state, inside this state.

That type of state law didn't work out so good for Jeremy Kettler in Kansas. They had a similar law but he lost his case against the atf and the SCOTUS refused to hear the appeal.

https://americanmilitarynews.com/2019/06/supreme-court-to-rule-on-us-army-vets-unconstitutional-gun-suppressor-this-week-after-national-controversy/

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1 hour ago, jtallen83 said:

That type of state law didn't work out so good for Jeremy Kettler in Kansas. They had a similar law but he lost his case against the atf and the SCOTUS refused to hear the appeal.

https://americanmilitarynews.com/2019/06/supreme-court-to-rule-on-us-army-vets-unconstitutional-gun-suppressor-this-week-after-national-controversy/

My Bad for a while I thought you were chatting about AIR pistols. . .DUUUHH!

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Like others, I was wondering why anyone would ask for clarification on things that seemed to be settled or ignored. Then it hit me. I wonder if the Jackwad letter writer is a liberal that just discovered something called a "determination letter". That has the potential to be a powerful tool in the anti-2nd amendment arsenal. It also occurred to me that I need to spend more time poking around the BATF web's site. I don't even know if inquiry/asking for clarification letters and their responses are published.  

2 hours ago, mrmackc said:

My Bad for a while I thought you were chatting about AIR pistols

Don't feel bad. When I first read the headline, I also saw the word "AIR".

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Just now, washguy said:

Damn 98.....AZ overrides the fed laws?   How kewl is this?:banana:  Wash

If what Gov Brewer pushed through years ago will hold in courts... Any future Federal Gun Laws that are thought up (at the time she passed it) have no impact on AZ residents. 

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If it holds I guess?    was reading bout Jesse Rooke....damn shame !  them bikes will get ya in the end....im still ffed up from a 1973 wreck bringin home a kaw triple 750 H2 ...I think that its designation? ...my shoulder only hurts when I breathe...:laffs:  Wash

Edited by washguy

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1 minute ago, washguy said:

If it holds I guess?    was reading bout Jesse Rooke....damn shame !  them bikes will get ya in the end....im still ffed up from a 1973 wreck bringin home a kaw triple 750 H2 ...I think that its designation? ...my shoulder only hurts when I breathe...:laffs:  Wash

That bike was the "WidowMaker"for a reason, brother.  I still lust for one. 750 triple 2-stroke, with a violent hit when it was on the pipe. Bad motherfucker...   :hail:

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I had no bizz on buying or riding that thing.....but after I healed up a bit I rode that damn thing a few times....running Klotz oil it didn't even smoke for an oil burner....Well you know bout them triples 98......damn it sounded effin EVIL.....:thumbup:   Wash

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Suzuki's answer to the Kawi H2 was water-cooling a 750 triple 2-stroke, the GT750 Water Buffalo.  I want one of those fuckers BAD...  

Kawi's new H2 and H2R are psycho.  Supercharged inline 4, 4-stroke.  The H2 is 200hp, the H2R is 300hp (and track-only, not street legal). 

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