Buyers be advised!

[Matt.Cross]

What follows in this post is my personal experience and describes the details of a single purchase (or failure thereof) and isn't intended to represent what future customers can expect. I have concrete proof of every aspect of the description I'm about to give, no part of this story is hearsay.

 

 

 

 

So here goes:

 

In February of 2011, I came up with some specifications for a prototype barrel that would be my starting point for future builds. I intended to build a prototyped rifle with this barrel and demo the rifle for future builds and sales. After deciding on the specifications, I called Lothar Walther and was given a ballpark figure for those specs. I decided that price wasn't too steep for just a single prototype barrel and sent the following e-mail to Woody Woodall, who heads up LW's North American productions:

 

 

 

 

I just called and was quoted $575-600 for the following barrel:

20" Stainless Fluted barrel for DPMS .308 AR, 1:10 twist, rifle-length
gas system, .936 diameter gas block, threaded 5/8"-24 at the muzzle
for a length of .750" and 11-degree crown.

It's my understanding that the quote includes the bolt as well, I
certainly appreciate that. My shipping/billing address and information
are as follows.

Matthew Cross
REDACTED
Maiden, NC 28650

Credit Card Information: REDACTED

REDACTED
REDACTED

Thank you very much, looking forward to hearing from you.

Matt C.

 

So far so good, and the same day I get a reply from Mr. Woodall:

 

 

Matt,

Go ahead and print this out and put a check with it and sent it to:

Lothar Walther
3425 Hutchinson Rd.
Cumming, GA 30040

 

No problem, simple enough! After a couple weeks and corrections to the amount owed, I send a check for the verified amount of $442.00 to LW along with specs, and I'm feeling great because that's way less than the $575 I was originally quoted! Fast forward to March 23rd, 2011 when my check is cashed by LW which must mean they've started on my barrel! Fantastic! After waiting several months though, no barrel arrives and I'm starting to get nervous about my barrel, so I make contact with Woody Woodall again to check on my barrel, 12 months after placing the original order.

 

 

I'd like to check on a barrel order I sent you guys a few months ago.
It was for an AR10 profile chambered in .308 Winchester, 20" length,
fluted, threaded 5/8"-24 at the muzzle and sized for a .936 gas block.
Customer info is:


Matthew Cross
REDACTED
Maiden, NC 28650
Telephone #: REDACTED
Please contact me and let me know the status of my barrel at your
earliest convenience, thank you!

 

The response was brief but informative:

 

 

Matt,

The barrel was shipped to you a while back.

I pulled the UPS records and the barrel was lost. So, you did not get it.

I will have to make you another one or refund your money.

 

Well, OK, crap happens. I wish I'd been a little better informed, but what the heck, they've got my money and they owe me a barrel. I just need to be patient right?  So let's not be hasty and demand a refund, that's what butthole-on-the-internet Joe does whenever he runs out of patience, and I really want a reputable barrel on my prototype, so I'll be patient. I respond:

 

 

Woody,

I'd really like to have a LW barrel on my AR... If you think you can
complete and ship the specified barrel within 4-5 months, I'll wait
for it. If not, the refund will be perfectly suitable. The desired
specs are:

AR10 Profile (for DPMS), 20" length, 1:10 twist, fluted, target crown,
.936" diameter gas block size, and threaded 5/8-24TPI at the muzzle. I
understand that a matched bolt will be included.

My shipping address is:

Matthew Cross
REDACTED
Maiden, NC 28650

Thank you very much Woody, I look forward to hearing back from you.

 

 

Matt

 

Those 3 e-mails were all on February 13th, 2012. The next day (14th), I get the following e-mail:

 

 

Matt,

I will take care for this. I expect you to have it in 1.5- 2 months.

Thanks for the patience.

Woody

 

Hot diggity! I will have my barrel by May! Suppressors are calling my name though, and LW hasn't started on my barrel yet. I better send them my blueprint so they can profile it for a suppressor! So on the 15th, I fire off an e-mail:

 

 

Hey Woody,

I hate to bug you again, but I need to ask a favor. I want to attach
an OPS Inc 12th model suppressor to my barrel, and I'd like to have it
profiled at the muzzle according to the attached drawing. I will be
willing to pay any difference in the cost if you can accommodate me.
Thanks, as always, I appreciate your time.

Matt Cross

 

I follow this up with a phone call to Woody and he reassures me that they got my e-mail and the drawing, and given all the trouble I've had getting my barrel, they will profile it at no extra cost. Great! So I'll have a profiled complete barrel by May and I'm delighted. Well, until May that is... but I decide to bide my time and wait for my barrel. It hasn't showed up by August of 2012 and I'm quite concerned but each phone call to LW is met with the assurance that my barrel will be undertaken immediately. 

[Matt.Cross]

Finally, Woody Woodall discloses that my barrel order has been hopelessly lost in their shuffle to meet production. I respecify the barrel and on September 14th 2012, Mr. Woodall states that my barrel will be moved to the top of their priority list.

 

 Fast forward again until July 16th of this year, with my barrel still never showing up. My barrel order has never even begun, much less being in any state of progression, by now I'm beginning to wonder if I'll ever see a barrel. Woody tells me that he does have an 18" threaded Armalite profile on the shelf with the correct 1:10 twist, would I prefer it? I say yes, thinking at least I can put an adjustable gas system on it and finally have a SASS build. I'm assured that the barrel will show up within 2-3 weeks of our conversation.

 

Two days ago, (9/9/13) two years and six months, countless e-mails and phone calls later, I ask for my money back. I'll let you all know how that is going, first of 2014 or so....

 

 

 

Edit:

 

This thread is now open for comments/questions.

Edited September 12, 2013 by Matt.Cross

[StainTrain]

I live near there and know people employed there, but will never ever buy a barrel from them due to a very poor initial experience. It is a shame because they do make great barrels.

Edited September 12, 2013 by StainTrain

[DNP]

That is a shame Matt. Hopefully you can get the refund before Christmas.

[blue109]

There aren't many things I'd wait 2.5 years for. Certainly not a barrel.

[Robocop1051]

Holy smokes!! My CF barrel took 16 months and I was crying about that. I couldn't imagine longer.

[jrtmasp]

Wow, you deserve sainthood for that wait. That is painful. I'd be livid.

[bubbasks]

Sheesh. Well it might not be as good but midway has the 18 sass in stock

[Rsquared]

And here I thought that I had shown patience while waiting for my POF SBR ( a mere 18 months). You went waaayyyy  past that Matt. It'll be interesting to see how long the refund takes.

[Matt.Cross]

I can't find a single vendor that sells LW barrels either, that's the route I'd be going if I were still pursuing one of their barrels. If my refund doesn't show up within a reasonable period of time, I'm going to be in contact with the Better Business Bureau.

[survivalshop]

You WIN , Matt ,    oh wait , or lose. I couldn't wait that long , that returned money in my pocket , would be burning a hole for another BBL.. 

[unforgiven]

Good luck brother,keep us posted.

[Boerboel guy]

Wow. That's crazy it's been that long after so many contacts with them. Thanks for the heads up about them. You should get a medal for patience on that whole deal. Damn.

[98Z5V]

I'd put an inanimate object in a sock and beat their ass with it.  I'm just sayin'. 

 

There's no sense in that.  Over that much time.

[BLKSHEEP]

^^Agreed, a 30" piece of 500mcm. >:D

[MaDuce]

I rarely mention it because I don't want to harm the company's reputation with easy to misunderstand information, but I waited over 2 years for my Addax ZK. I had originally ordered an ATAC MARK1 back in 2009. But; after a series of long discussions with Chris Haddadian, I became convinced the ZK was going to be the better deal as this was a system he, himself designed and developed from ground up and I trusted him then and even further trust him now with AR15 building over anyone else, so I talked him in to letting me pre-order one even though it was still in R&D. This happened I believe in August or september of 2009. He, himself was reluctant to allow it because the gun was still a year away from it's projected release date and was concearned that I; like many others would get impatient. But I convinced him. Well, the gun wound up taking an additional year because they had to outsource parts and manufacturers kept making them to standerds that were unacceptable to Chris. If I remember correctly, my own was also delayed a month or 2 because I volunteered to skip the first batch for what I believed at the time were nagging customers. The parts delays happened over and over again and started to sound like excuses, but I DEFINITELY saw exactly what he was talking about when I eventually got my gun and compared the guts of with other AR-15s.

 

This video was made within a few days of getting it.:

 

As you can see, it's dated November 1, 2011.

When they finally DID get the ZKs built and sent, I was very happy I waited all that time. The gun LOOKS like a pretty gas piston AR15 at first sight, but when you shoot it, the gun will shock you at how smooth, accurate and reliable it really is. Sadly, the trouble getting parts made properly meant the production would be short lived, and now only a handfull of these exist. This means that; by waiting it out a couple years, I managed to get in on one of a very sellect few exceptional, hand made and extrordinary performing AR-15s. It's probably the AR15 equivilant of having a Lamborghini Reventon or Sesto Elemento.

 

 Anyway, the moral of the story is good things come to those who wait. I waited over 2 years just like you and I DID eventually get it as you can see. I would have StainTrain check up on your barrel for you and see if what they're saying is true. If it is, I would give them one last chance and say so. If not, get a refund. Manufacturers tend to start abusing their reputations as soon as they peak. Likewise, you may find yourself getting a much better product at a much better price from some mom and pop barrel maker trying to gain a reputation for themselves. When it comes to one time custom parts, I've had far better luck with small mom and pop operations then big name manufacturers.

Edited September 14, 2013 by MaDuce

[Magwa]

I don't ask much from people i give my money to , but I do ask them and expect them to keep their word or don't give it . If they say NO that is fine but if they say yes and take my money then I expect delivery in a timey manner that they have said ... I would be livid and I would take my business elsewhere, I don't care if they make the best batrrel in the world. but then it is just me...

[Matt.Cross]

I don't ask much from people i give my money to , but I do ask them and expect them to keep their word or don't give it . If they say NO that is fine but if they say yes and take my money then I expect delivery in a timey manner that they have said ... I would be livid and I would take my business elsewhere, I don't care if they make the best batrrel in the world. but then it is just me...

 

Right on the  money. It not the problem of the timeline, it's the problem of continually saying they will get started on it and giving a time frame for being finished, only to never do anything whatsoever. Putting up with that 2-3 times is being patient, putting up with it 7-8 times is insanity.

[Matt.Cross]

Mr. Woodall promised that my full refund would mail out to me on Sep. 10th from Cummings GA, it's now almost 2.5 weeks later and no refund has shown up. I've now filed a complaint with the Atlanta branch of the Better Business Bureau asking for a full refund with a tracking number. If this fails, I will be contacting his local DA.

[jrtmasp]

^^^good luck. I hope you have to do very little else to resolve the issue.

[Matt.Cross]

^^^good luck. I hope you have to do very little else to resolve the issue.

 

Every turn of events is just another nail in his proverbial coffin. I wonder how he'd feel if he were to be featured on the local news stations as a crooked businessman...  

 

Consumer complaints are great fodder for local TV!

[survivalshop]

I just don't get it , I thought they were a good co..

[StainTrain]

WSB channel 2 out of Atlanta.

[Matt.Cross]

Lothar Walther sent my check. I was prepared to call the District Attorney on this coming Monday. This thing is finally over!

[Rsquared]

Good deal Matt. Glad they finally gave you your money back.