gnatshooter Posted May 2, 2014 Report Share Posted May 2, 2014 Friends, Every so often I go looking for muzzle brake options. People are always coming up with new ideas for how to 'tame' recoil or handle flash. I always get a kick out of one brake option, which is supposedly designed to stab zombies in the face. But that's an old one. There are two new items I just came across on Amazon, which I've found is the best source for muzzle brakes. Better than Google, even Google Images. There is a new Ultra Low Concussion Shrouded Muzzle Brake available that looks good. There is also a Kineti-Tech Muzzle Brake with Sound Redirect, which looks to be built along the same principles. Now it used to be, the better the muzzle brake works, the more concussion you have blowing your hat off your head and annoying everyone within 30 yards or so. Looks like these offerings are supposed to be brakes without concussion. Is this like fishing lures, that catch more fishermen than fish? Or maybe these two brakes are a design revolution that will amaze everyone. Not long ago, some guys here said they were going to video some muzzle brake comparisons. That thread is out there, I can't find it. But surely there's an opinion on these brakes somewhere. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dracomeister Posted May 3, 2014 Report Share Posted May 3, 2014 OK, so I'm not a Rocket Scientist but it seems to me that the recoil reducing effect of a brake is in part caused by re-directing high velocity gasses rearward (Newton's Laws). If those same gasses are then re-directed forward inside the shroud, that would seem to cancel the effect, though with a microsecond delay. One mitigating effect may be the decrease in gas temperature and pressure caused by expansion into the brake (like a muffler). While I believe this effect would be minimal, it could reduce pressure transients significantly (Nozzle Effect). Reducing the gas velocity should, in turn, reduce the forward thrust effect. I have a standard brake on my LR-308 and it works perfectly (recoil is no more than my AR-15) but the damn thing is deafening, I may blow $50 bucks for one of these and see if it makes any difference. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gnatshooter Posted May 3, 2014 Author Report Share Posted May 3, 2014 I may blow $50 bucks for one of these and see if it makes any difference. I hereby nominate you be our test subject for checking out one of these brakes. I like your skeptical approach to how this design might work -- or not work. I personally have a JP Cooley 'large' brake on my .308 and it works, but it's totally brutal on concussion. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BigP623 Posted May 3, 2014 Report Share Posted May 3, 2014 (edited) Yeah I actually got banned from one range temporarily because too many people hated the concussion under the overhang. They let me come back tho... :banana: I also second you as a test subject. Ive also ran across these and the physics of them seem to negate its intended effect. Let us know if it works! Edited May 3, 2014 by BigP623 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dracomeister Posted May 3, 2014 Report Share Posted May 3, 2014 Done! Ordered one, should be delivered next week (when I just happen to be on vacation) so I'll work it out and see what happens. I also have access to a decibel meter and some fairly accurate pressure meters (within 0.005" WC) so I'll test for blast pressure as well. Hey, I just installed my new SSA-E trigger assembly so I get to work it out too! Gee, I love new toys! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BigP623 Posted May 3, 2014 Report Share Posted May 3, 2014 I will be waiting on the results <thumbsup> Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FaRKle! Posted May 3, 2014 Report Share Posted May 3, 2014 Not long ago, some guys here said they were going to video some muzzle brake comparisons. That thread is out there, I can't find it. But surely there's an opinion on these brakes somewhere.I fully intend on doing that too. We needed a better camera and I'm hoping that there's a Memorial Day sale on it. I'm going to have well over $1000 invested in this project (camera, ammo, muzzle devices). Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
shibiwan Posted May 3, 2014 Report Share Posted May 3, 2014 (edited) I've messed with these three: (L to R - no name $30 knockoff JP Cooley, $35 ebay wannabe "dynacomp" , $85 Spike's Dynacomp Extreme) #1 on the left works pretty well for $30. It's currently on the 308. Sideblast is "noticeable" but not too annoying and I'm getting improved groups over the standard birdcage A2 flash hider. #2 in the middle works very well - used it on the 300 BLK and was a pleasure to shoot, but was a hair too short (14.5" barrel) #3 on the right - impressed with #2, I decided to go with the Spike's Dynacomp Extreme on the 300 BLK so I could pin it on properly to make everything legal. I figure the performance will be about the same as #2, if not better. Haven't tested it yet. Edited May 3, 2014 by shibiwan Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
D.R.D. Posted May 3, 2014 Report Share Posted May 3, 2014 Wow...reduce recoil and redirect sound...why does this seem too good to be true? Just curious, cause if it works, why isn't every on this fanboys-on-tacticool? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sketch Posted May 3, 2014 Report Share Posted May 3, 2014 I'm guessing the shroud will reduse the sound but cause the recoil to remain the same? But being threaded it would make sense to put it on in closed quarters but have the option to remove it and get the full potential of the break? I could use this !! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Robocop1051 Posted May 3, 2014 Report Share Posted May 3, 2014 Wow...reduce recoil and redirect sound...why does this seem too good to be true? Just curious, cause if it works, why isn't every on this fanboys-on-tacticool? It is... check out the "Ferfrans" CQB Modular Muzzle Break. The fanboys have been all over the design for some time. A muzzle brake shield isn't new. A designer made one a while back that fit over the AAC 51T or the YHM suppressor threads. They all dry up because of the weight. The combined weight of the brake + shield is usually about 10+ ounces. I'm waiting for one of the newer companies to make a Ti version. I think a 51T or Surefire mount would benefit the most. Even the A2 QD version would benefit some. I may have to pass this information to a local company that does work in Ti. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Robocop1051 Posted May 3, 2014 Report Share Posted May 3, 2014 (edited) The brake/comp still does its job. Gas (like electricity) follows the path of least resistance as it expands. Once the gas leaves the brake/comp it is forced to exhaust forward, including the sound blast. This is very similar to the KX3 or Krink style brakes that are out there already. I would suggest finding one where the shield does not extend past the brake/comp. Since the gas travels faster than the bullet, the gas leaving the brake may get redirected into the path of the bullet, causing it to affect your accuracy. Once the weight drops down to sub 5oz on one of these combo's, I'll jump all over it. More than 1/4 lbs of weight hanging off the end of a barrel is ridiculous for anything other than a bench rifle. Edited May 3, 2014 by Robocop1051 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dane Armory Posted May 3, 2014 Report Share Posted May 3, 2014 I am a self proclaimed PRI FANBOY. But they work very good. I found this one today and know nothing about the company, Witt Machine they sell these starting at $85. Here is a picture. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gnatshooter Posted May 4, 2014 Author Report Share Posted May 4, 2014 It is... check out the "Ferfrans" CQB Modular Muzzle Break. The fanboys have been all over the design for some time. . The "Ferfrans" CQB Modular Muzzle Break can be found here. They basically admit that the part of the brake that redirects concussion forward also makes the brake less effective. Weight of 4 ounces is not bad. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Robocop1051 Posted May 4, 2014 Report Share Posted May 4, 2014 (edited) The "Ferfrans" CQB Modular Muzzle Break can be found here. They basically admit that the part of the brake that redirects concussion forward also makes the brake less effective. Weight of 4 ounces is not bad. 4 oz justfor the break. The whole system is 10.4 ounces. Muzzle Brake Mount Specs: • Weight - 4.0 oz • Length - 2.28" • Brake Thread Pattern - 1/2x28 • Caliber - (.223/556) • CRD (Concussion Reduction Device) • Length - 2.17" • Width - 1.6" Diameter• Total weight of the system combined is 10.4 ounces Edited May 4, 2014 by Robocop1051 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
D.R.D. Posted May 4, 2014 Report Share Posted May 4, 2014 Does that one increase felt recoil? Doesn't seem like it can direct gasses forward, and change the recoil, no? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MikedaddyH Posted May 4, 2014 Report Share Posted May 4, 2014 There is recoil with a 223 ??? With the added noise I didn't notice ! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Magwa Posted May 4, 2014 Report Share Posted May 4, 2014 and no recoil on a 308..... very mild like a 270..... the best I have seen and used is the AAC 51-T brakeout combo..... http://www.silencershop.com/shop/aac-51t-brakeout/ Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Robocop1051 Posted May 4, 2014 Report Share Posted May 4, 2014 I just bought a Lantac Dragon 7.62 for my Ruger GSR... I have yet to shoot it, but its reputation says it should be stellar. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
unforgiven Posted May 4, 2014 Report Share Posted May 4, 2014 Have you given up on the BABC ??? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Robocop1051 Posted May 4, 2014 Report Share Posted May 4, 2014 Have you given up on the BABC ??? Not at all... I just didn't see the comp working on my bolt rifle as well as a brake would. I still have BC's on all my semi auto rifles. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gnatshooter Posted May 4, 2014 Author Report Share Posted May 4, 2014 (edited) "In developing the Stabilizer Brake, Innovator thought it had solved the latter problem by directing the noise forward, away from the shooter." --and that's what made the ATF decide the device was a silencer/suppressor. The company took the ATF to court, and won! ATF Jumped the Gun on “Silencer” - The Truth About Guns - March 26, 2014http://www.thetruthaboutguns.com/2014/03/robert-farago/atf-jumped-gun-silencer-designation/ Edit: The text of the court's decision can be found here: https://ecf.dcd.uscourts.gov/cgi-bin/show_public_doc?2013cv0581-17 Guns.com seems to think that this is the actual diagram of the muzzle brake in question -- I haven't been able to verify the claim http://www.guns.com/wp-content/uploads/2014/03/innovator-enterprises-muzzle-brake-2.jpg Edited May 4, 2014 by gnatshooter Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
survivalshop Posted May 4, 2014 Report Share Posted May 4, 2014 With a close fitting shroud around the Brake , I would think it would stop being an efficient brake & recoil reducer. Just thinking out loud. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ben Diss Posted May 5, 2014 Report Share Posted May 5, 2014 I'm going to give the Kineti-Tech muzzle brake a try. I'll report back once I've had a chance to test it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
unforgiven Posted May 5, 2014 Report Share Posted May 5, 2014 <munch> Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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