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planeflyer21

Stopping Power

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Hmm. "Obviously, shot placement is the only realistic option for a law enforcement officer."

 

"I have seen a .22 caliber bullet completely incapacitate someone and a .45 ACP fail to achieve that result."

 

"The ultimate stopping power rests with your training with your weapon system."

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If this was the guy's conclusion...

 

Stopping power is a marketing tool and should be dropped from our discussions of ballistic performance until such time as ammunition effectiveness is measured by more means than just the results of gelatin and barrier tests.

 

...then why did he title the article the way he did?

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I read a similar article a year or two ago that went into more detail. If I recall correctly, it talked about bullets that followed blood vessels and channels that may offer an easier path.

I don't know where to start looking for it. It is similar enough that it may be an expanded version of the same article.

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I just don't wanna starting seeing a bunch of bull$hit from someone quoting that damn article, and talking about their .22LR CCW piece, saying it's just as effective as someone carrying a .45 ACP, Border Patrol .40, or a .460 S&W Mag, or a Howitzer...  :ugone2far:

 

EDIT - Had to go back and edit this one to make sure "bull$hit" showed up...  <lmao>

Edited by 98Z5V

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  Its always been shot placement , this has been a known fact for as long as the argument of stopping power has been around .

 

I still carrie a 45 with 45 acp hard ball ammo . That one comment of the round not penetrating a Levi jacket , made me laugh .

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Yeah, I'll take the chance that my bigger holes will stop them, if not physically, then as a mental deterrent to get another round.

Also if you are chancing the extremely small chance a 22lr will find the absolute perfect path, especially if your being shot back at, your may want to try your luck in Vegas, cause that is absolutely ridiculous

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I agree with that...big holes open big holes.

 

Whether you pull the trigger or not. 

 

This dude who trained me graveyard shift at a convenience store was relating his experience at being robbed at gunpoint.  This dude took no shite off anyone, had a fiberglass axe handle with a steel rod down the center for "negotiations"...but he was an ex felon and carried no pistol.  Said he turned around and there was a gun in his face, so he emptied the register.  I kind of smirked at someone getting the better of him and told him I had a hard time seeing anyone get the better of him.

 

In his strong Mexican accent, "It's not funny Jonathan! That thing looks like a phucking CANNON when you're on this end of it!" 

 

Same dude had a guy pull a knife on him.  Axe handle right across the top of the melon...SPLIT, exit as a wobbly goblin and spurting blood EVERYWHERE.  Police followed the blood right to the robber.

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I just don't wanna starting seeing a bunch of bull$hit from someone quoting that damn article, and talking about their .22LR CCW piece, saying it's just as effective as someone carrying a .45 ACP, Border Patrol .40, or a .460 S&W Mag, or a Howitzer...  :ugone2far:

 

EDIT - Had to go back and edit this one to make sure "bull$hit" showed up... 

Here is an exception to your statement , BUT. . . This is military and in Ship mounted !

EM Pulse gun at six to seven times the speed of sound.

I did not save the link to this article. Oh well !

post-13525-0-29461800-1403903755_thumb.j

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Im fat so this is doable

Thunder !

Limited number made in SLC ,UT 12 years ago. Good luck !

I posted 3 pics of this gun somewhere on this site.

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Im fat so this is doable

That's called super fun size !! I can't imagine being on my feet after that!

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Here is an exception to your statement , BUT. . . This is military and in Ship mounted !

EM Pulse gun at six to seven times the speed of sound.

I did not save the link to this article. Oh well !

Hmmm. BAE Systems. They know one or two things about weaponry......last time I checked. <laughs>

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Somebody should write an article like this, but comparing what stops a regular criminal, versus one crazed on PCP, angel dust, bath salts, meth, etc.

 

One of the most famous LE shootings was here in Arizona, mid-late 80s.  Call to a man with a gun, officer that rolled up put SIX full power .357 Magnum 125gr SJHP Remington High Velocity into the kill zone.  Perp finally drops his gun and took off sprinting...for a block and a half.

 

The autopsy reported each one of the six shots was lethal and SHOULD have been incapacitating on its own.

 

Autopsy also showed the perp was clean...no drugs, no alcohol.

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One of the most famous LE shootings was here in Arizona, mid-late 80s.  Call to a man with a gun, officer that rolled up put SIX full power .357 Magnum 125gr SJHP Remington High Velocity into the kill zone.  Perp finally drops his gun and took off sprinting...for a block and a half.

 

The autopsy reported each one of the six shots was lethal and SHOULD have been incapacitating on its own.

 

Autopsy also showed the perp was clean...no drugs, no alcohol.

Have seen the same in animals I have shot one elk I shot at 50 yards right behind the shoulder double lung dropped in it's tracks bounced off the ground..... another in the same type of shot ran 100 yards was dead on it's feet but ran all the same till it bled out.... I believe based on what I have seen in the woods it depends on what the animal is doing at the time of the shot is it alerted? adrineline pumping? or is it relaxed and does not even know you are there? the key is shot placement put your rounds where they count .. the rest will take care of it's self..

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My buddy's Dad, a deputy, got off duty and walked into a convenience store for a snack.  While in there, someone came in to rob the place.  "Freeze!" and perp turns and shoots with his .25, Dad drops him with a couple of .45acp rounds.

 

While conducting the crime scene investigations, their sargeant said "What's that Bill?"

 

A .25 bullet was stuck in his duty belt.

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Placement has 0% repeatability here.... Almost, let me clarify my position. If it's not an immediate kill shot, chances of a bullet following the same exact path as it enters the body are very much slim to none. I doubt you'd be able to say "this guy died of a 22 that entered here and ricochet to here, so it'll do that every time...." Where as at least with a larger caliber, a hit is a hit, and the larger the wound cavity, more guarantee of damage, every time.

Just my food for thought.

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  An interesting subject! I wish we had more med professionals to help us.

   I'm going to talk to a critical care nurse friend of mine, and see if we can get more professional opinions.

   Hard, here in Durango, as there just aren't that many shootings.

   Respectfully

   Terry

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Teen Shot 6 Times With Assault Rifle - NBC10 - June 24, 2014
http://www.nbcphiladelphia.com/news/local/Teen-Shot-6-Times-With-Assault-Rifle-264367851.html

The 18-year-old was shot six times in the back and chest with an assault rifle, police said. He was able to walk a block after the shooting to Orkney Street, where he collapsed.

 

The teen was rushed to Temple University Hospital where he remains in critical condition.

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