why does anyone need a AR15?

[Magwa]

The Clearwater elk heard used to be the biggest in the state untill the wolves now it is down to 1800 from 23,000 a lot of times they just kill eat the choice parts and move on leaving the rest to rot we eradicated these bastards once but forward thinking liberals decided we needed them back ... brilliant huh?

[Magwa]

check these out....

http://saveelk.com/wolf_061.htm

[unforgiven]

Wow...never saw such huge wolves. :o

[98Z5V]

Those monsters are...  HUGE.  Bigger than the deer they're after, probably.  That webpage says they're going after bear now - that's nuts.  :o

[imschur]

Holy cow I thought that was a bear.

[edgecrusher]

Holy fucking shit man! You boys up north, take care in the woods, watch you six, and keep extra mags available

[MONTANA308]

<lmao> <laughs> 

[Rsquared]

Screw the AR-15 with those things. That might just piss them off. Definitely keep the AR-10 handy.  <laughs>

[DNP]

....and silver bullets.  <munch>

[Magwa]

It is a huge problem up here I just took a trapping class and I am going to try and trap some... have to get a snow sled first will try to outfit myself for next year .....

[Hitman]

Congrats on the kill. That is one huge predator!

[seasprite]

Holy cow I thought that was a bear.

 

This 

 

I didn't know you guy's grew those things so big 

[shepp]

The Clearwater elk heard used to be the biggest in the state untill the wolves now it is down to 1800 from 23,000 a lot of times they just kill eat the choice parts and move on leaving the rest to rot we eradicated these bastards once but forward thinking liberals decided we needed them back ... brilliant huh?

 

 

they did the same thing here in wisconsin now they are eatting the fornicate outta our deer.

[DNP]

I'm game to bring them to San Diego if we can train them to eat liberals. Shitty thing is there aren't any good parts for them to eat...they're all full of crap. Even the zombies pass right by em. Which reminds me...I need some Obama campaign shirts for the bunker...you know, so we blend in when the zombies come.

[blue109]

everyone i show that pic to has  the same reaction lol.  OMG...KILL THEM ALLLLLL

[planeflyer21]

I have a friend that had a grey wolf.  She was BIG but not 6' tall big!

 

Jon

[MaDuce]

I was going to say "because most cant afford a ar308 or the ammo to feed one" but damn. Think I'd want a beta with that AR for that monster.

 

After everything, my .308 cost me around $1400 and would have cost me about $1500 had I paid full price for everything.

 

My AR-15cost me around $1700 after everything and would have cost around $2200 had I paid full price for everything.

 

Right now, local gun stores are selling 20 round boxes of .223 for $17 and 20 round boxes of .308 for $22

 

 I am a .308 fan first and foremost but TBH, when I compared the two head to head, I found that I am much more fond of my AR-15. It's smaller, faster and more manuverable, short of large game it's just as potent as the .308 with the right ammo, just as acurate and has almost no recoil. Then again, my .308 is an economic frankengun while my AR-15 is a top of the line gas piston rifle. I am now wishing I baught a shorter barrel for my .308 but otherwise I am sold on both for different reasons.

 

 As far as killing a bear goes, I seam to recall there being a 90gr .223 cartridge that moves at over 3000fps from the AR-15. Compare that to common .308 loads pushing a 150gr bullet at around 2700fps. Of course .308 can do allot better then that but it DOES go to show that the .223 can come fairly close to the standard stuff and no one questions a standard .308 round's ability to take down a bear.

 

.223/5.56 looks small and weak but when you do the math, it reveals it's self to be far more powerful then it appears.

 

 To me, the two fall in to the 9mm VS .45ACP debate in a way. Anything you launch out the barrel of a .308 is going to knock the living daylights out of anyone it hits. Some ball ammo in .223/5.56 are just hole pokers but when you add SD or specialty ammo in to the mix, the crucial differences between the two start to fade.

Edited March 25, 2013 by MaDuce

[MaDuce]

Wow...never saw such huge wolves. :o

 

 Pretty common in the Keini peninsula of Alaska. They're also the only ones out there that really target, stock and hunt down people. Bears generally only go after people if spooked, very hungry and/or target of opportunity. There's a reason why people are mowing them down.

Edited March 25, 2013 by MaDuce

[edgecrusher]

 As far as killing a bear goes, I seam to recall there being a 90gr .223 cartridge that moves at over 3000fps from the AR-15. Compare that to common .308 loads pushing a 150gr bullet at around 2700fps.

Nope, that ammo will not fit into an ar15 mag, the biggest I think you can load is 77gr. I believe, Tom may be able to verify that. The 90gr. cartridge is most likely for a bolt gun.

[98Z5V]

Nope, that ammo will not fit into an ar15 mag, the biggest I think you can load is 77gr. I believe, Tom may be able to verify that. The 90gr. cartridge is most likely for a bolt gun.

I read his post on that, and my head almost exploded.

 

MaDuce, go load a 90gr (Berger VLD, cause they're the only ones that make it) into a mag-length round.  Unpossible.  Can you shoot one through an AR15?  Sure, but it's single-shot only, hand-loaded only.  Fit one of those long bastards into a case, with a reliable load, stuff it into a mag, and show me a picture of said action.

 

There are some 75gr projos that wont fit into an AR15 mag.  You can make some 80gr specialty bullets fit, if you really do your homework.  Sierra Matchking 77gr HPBTs are about the max you're EVER gonna get, and that's EVER.  If a more reliable, deadly load was EVER gonna be developed, the .mil brothers would have figured it out a LONG time ago.  If you want the baddest load you can replicate, then go after a load that replicates Mk262 ammo, either Mod 0, or Mod 1.  I had nothing but MK262 loaded in mags in 2003, for an M4A1 carbine. 

 

If you want a nastier load than that, then try to replicate the 70gr "brown tip optimized" load issued to SOCOM now.  It's a Barnes 70gr TSX projo loaded into NATO cases.  By the way Barnes quit producing those for commercial purchase based on BATFE guidelines on "armor piercing" ammunition.  Good luck finding some, though.

 

[shepp]

After everything, my .308 cost me around $1400 and would have cost me about $1500 had I paid full price for everything.

My AR-15cost me around $1700 after everything and would have cost around $2200 had I paid full price for everything.

Right now, local gun stores are selling 20 round boxes of .223 for $17 and 20 round boxes of .308 for $22

I am a .308 fan first and foremost but TBH, when I compared the two head to head, I found that I am much more fond of my AR-15. It's smaller, faster and more manuverable, short of large game it's just as potent as the .308 with the right ammo, just as acurate and has almost no recoil. Then again, my .308 is an economic frankengun while my AR-15 is a top of the line gas piston rifle. I am now wishing I baught a shorter barrel for my .308 but otherwise I am sold on both for different reasons.

As far as killing a bear goes, I seam to recall there being a 90gr .223 cartridge that moves at over 3000fps from the AR-15. Compare that to common .308 loads pushing a 150gr bullet at around 2700fps. Of course .308 can do allot better then that but it DOES go to show that the .223 can come fairly close to the standard stuff and no one questions a standard .308 round's ability to take down a bear.

.223/5.56 looks small and weak but when you do the math, it reveals it's self to be far more powerful then it appears.

To me, the two fall in to the 9mm VS .45ACP debate in a way. Anything you launch out the barrel of a .308 is going to knock the living daylights out of anyone it hits. Some ball ammo in .223/5.56 are just hole pokers but when you add SD or specialty ammo in to the mix, the crucial differences between the two start to fade.

Bear are also fatty, very fatty. If that 223 round doesn't open up and punch a big hole he's not going down any time soon. When I go bear hunting my 223 won't even be a thought, my .308 or 30-06 will be weapon of choice.

[george_995]

Somehow missed this thread.

 

Crazy how big them dogs are. :sniper:

 

Has anyone here seen the movie The Grey  with LieM Niesen?  I believe PETA  and other groups lashed out saying the movie depicted grey wolves in a bad light like the movie JAWS. They claimed grey wolves did not grow as depicted in the movie,  these photos show their full of sh!t. IMO the the size of the wolves in the movie weren't far off.

[BLKSHEEP]

They're several things to factor in when it comes to taking large game, the most important one(imo) is how much energy can your bullet potentially release into the animal. As you can see the .308 has roughly twice the energy of the .223.

 

.308 Win. Energy ft.lbs. Bullet Muzzle 100   200   300   400  500

Remington® Express®    168  2678  2318 1998 1713 1460 1239

 

 

.223 Rem. Energy ft.lbs. Bullet Muzzle 100 200 300   400   500

Remington® Express®     69   1379   1133   925   747   598   473

Edited April 21, 2013 by BLKSHEEP

[Magwa]

Seems in th last 20 years or so their has been a huge new group of hunters who believe that bigger is always better ,I am seeing alot more magnums like 338,7mm STW, 378 weatherby etc. all in the hands of folks that can not handle them obviously if you have a big old cannon and know how to shoot it and load for it this does not apply to you , but the single most important thing to successful hunting is bullet placement if you put a well constructed bullet through the lungs of any animal it is over end game .... so for my money practice and confidence in your weapon of choice is foremost the most important thing to not good but great bullet placement.... know your target and it's anatomy and you will have no problems and waste no meat..... :)

[shepp]

Seems in th last 20 years or so their has been a huge new group of hunters who believe that bigger is always better ,I am seeing alot more magnums like 338,7mm STW, 378 weatherby etc. all in the hands of folks that can not handle them obviously if you have a big old cannon and know how to shoot it and load for it this does not apply to you , but the single most important thing to successful hunting is bullet placement if you put a well constructed bullet through the lungs of any animal it is over end game .... so for my money practice and confidence in your weapon of choice is foremost the most important thing to not good but great bullet placement.... know your target and it's anatomy and you will have no problems and waste no meat..... :)

 

i agree with you there too! ive got a friend who hunts with a 300 win mag and an other with a 7MM and they are both meat destroying machinces. on the other hand i hunt with a guy that uses a 243 and that thing is a straight up deer wounder, can't tell you how many times we've tracked deer with little to no blood trail for hours. ive been hunting with a 30-06 for 10 years now (last was my first with the .308) but every deer i have hit in those 10 years has dropped dead in its tracks with in 20' of impact. clean in normally half dollar sized exit with little to no waste.